The MAIN "SCO" (rant) thread (Please post in here) - Page 11


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Thread: The MAIN "SCO" (rant) thread (Please post in here)

  1. #151
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    Originally posted by blackbelt_jones

    The important thing to remember is that IBM can make this go away any time it really needs to, by buying out SCO-- so the only thing that matters is IBM's ability to read the seriousness of the case against them, or if there even is a case against them. I think that we can trust them to do that.
    i think thats actually a very very good point. Most of us know that SCO wont win this case anyway, and it wouldnt be all that damaging if they did (to Linux i mean). But if IBM were truely worried about this lawsuit, then they would have bought out SCO for a small fraction of what they stand to lose from this lawsuit.
    The Difference being, Hackers build things, Crackers break them

  2. #152
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    From day 1 we have not been taking SCO seriously.

    First SCO says there is code being used illegally. "Bah!" "Show us the code." "If you don't show us the code we won't believe you." "The burden of proof falls on SCO." Do you honestly think that they would sue for $1 billion if their allegations weren't true?

    Now we have seen some of the code, we expect them to show all of it? "That's only 80 lines of code." As SCO has explained, they wouldn't be able to do show more because then they wouldn't have a case. The radio broadcast blackbelt_jones linked to even reiterated and reenforced this fact.

    I don't think that I*B*M is staying quiet about this whole thing because they are not worried about it. They don't want to draw any unnecessary attention to the case that could stifle inverstors.

    I'm willing to bet that SCO has found plenty of code in the LINUX kernel and that they have evidence that I*B*M developers put it in there. How well this will stand up in court? I don't know, but I think they stand a better chance then we are giving them credit.

  3. #153
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    hop-frog,
    you sound like a doom sayer from the monty python movie "the life of brian".

    the Fact is neither can SCO prove that the code they are displaying is infact their own code. SCO realizes this.

    hence SCO is trying to dictate that all code that derives from any unix (including windows) is their property. Based on an old ATT liscence from which unix was purchased.

    it is obvious that SCO has no desire to take this to trial. so they raise a stink till they are baught out.

    IBM does not wish to do this for several reasons. can you imagine how much such a move would encourage other 2 bit companies to try the same thing if SCO were to be baught out?

    http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit032.html#U13
    "Word is seeping out that identical code is found in both Unix and Linux, and that IBM did indeed put it into Linux. This is RCU (Read Copy Update) code written by Sequent (now owned by IBM) that SCO claims is theirs because they own derivative works."

    The problem for SCO is it appears to be not a derivative of Unix, but work entirely independent of any specific operating system, and implemented in both Unix and Linux by the same person under IBM copyright (A46). No wonder IBM isn't worried - but perhaps they should exercise their copyright ownership and demand the non-GPL version of their code be removed from SCO Unix.

    I would sugest saving the doom saying till after SCO even actually files for the injunction.
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  4. #154
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    Here is an article written by someone who saw some of the code:
    http://www.linuxjournal.com/article....thread&order=0

    "The short version of this essay is SCO's claims are unproven, as I expected would be the case before I went. The amount of information SCO was willing to show me was extremely limited, and it did not by itself prove that SCO's claims were true nor that its claims were false. "

  5. #155
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    that is the game SCO is playing.

    they want to raise question so that they can spead FUD. They are not trying to prove they are right. they know they're wrong. but as long as they can spread fud they build mind share which in turn drives up their stocks.

    they are praying that people will run with the idea that you have and perpetuate more fud (fear, uncertainty, doubt).

    they are counting on people like you that look at a half glass of water and always see it as half empty.
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  6. #156
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    this
    Originally posted by saithan
    they want to raise question so that they can spead FUD.
    and how many companies do you know of that have declared a $1 billion lawsuit just so that they could cast fear and doubt?

  7. #157
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    tell me how would you try going about forcing a company like IBM to buy you out?

    Why do you think they uped the anti to 3 billion after IBM basically flicked them off.

    look at oracles 1.5 billion hostile offer to peoplesoft.
    # P4 3.06 ghz CPU.
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    # 2 gig ddr ram.
    # Maxtor ata133 200gig 7200 rpm HD.
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    # Aopen 16x DVD/CD-rom.
    # Mitsumi 52x CD-RW.
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  8. #158
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  9. #159
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    I supose I can say I have proof the moon is made of green cheese but only show the cheese collected at the price of a non-disclosure Agreement. Print it on ZDnet and you will beleive that?

    now instead of you being smart and saying ok now prove that the non disclosure cheese is not from wisconsin. you choose to take darl mcbride at face value.

    now what that has done is remove me from the perception of the burden of proof and placed it on you to bring forth the burden of disproof. And all along I could be just showing you a peice of moldy wisconsin cheese.
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  10. #160
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    now instead of you being smart and saying ok now prove that the non disclosure cheese is not from wisconsin. you choose to take darl mcbride at face value.
    Perhaps you know something about this guy that you'd like to share? Sure some of his comments seemed to sidestep the questions. He might very well have a hidden agenda, but how can you be certain? Why does it seem like such a far-fetched idea to you that he is telling the truth?

  11. #161
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    Originally posted by saithan
    Print it on ZDnet and you will beleive that?
    BTW, Is Z*D*n*e*t considered a bad source for news? I'd rather have a second opinion on this one as my pile of credible news organizations seems to diminish every time we have one of these debates. Have people had any bad experiences with this news organization?

  12. #162
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    you are missing the point ( or you simply don't want to see the fact that they and simply using the code viewing as a media ploy ).

    I guess you might see things different if your money and time was in the IT industry.

    If you are so worried or you beleive SCO then go and pay them your liscence fee for your linux box.

    oh, wait they have not proven that they even have a case!

    you are obviously sold on their word so no sense in taking this any farther.
    # P4 3.06 ghz CPU.
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    # 2 gig ddr ram.
    # Maxtor ata133 200gig 7200 rpm HD.
    # PNY GeForce4 Ti 4800.
    # Aopen 16x DVD/CD-rom.
    # Mitsumi 52x CD-RW.
    # Creative Audigy2 Platinum.
    # WinTV-Go tv capture card.
    # 2 raid IBM 10,000rpm SCSI 73gig Hds.

  13. #163
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    Angry What if SCO is right? F***'em anyway!

    Darl has been inconsistent enough that it's not hard to assume that SCO doesn't have a case-- but if SCO does have a case, what are we supposed to do about it now anyway? There will be time for introspection later on, when we really do know the truth. Right now is the time for hanging tough.

    Sure, IBM is probably taking the SCO threat more seriously than it's letting on publically-- because that's how the game is played.

    What's going on right now is all about public perception, and psyching out your opponent. It's the proverbial war of nerves. FUD may not be the end that SCO seeks, but it certainly is a big part of the means they're employing, and the usual forces are gathering to take full advantage of the situation. I feel I have a stake in this conflict, and so I have entered the fray. I think we're all involved with this.

    I love what Linus did, quietly and with no fanafare. When Linux is most threatened, clueless pundits trying to make it look like the future is in doubt, he made Linux his full-time career. Meanwhile there was a story of a former SCO executive who just dumped all his stock. And the Linux community's response is something that I can think we can all be proud of. Later, we should all have a long long dialogue about what's to be done to prevent this sort of thing from happening again. But right now, they're trying to get us to flinch, and we're not flinching. These, after all, are the people who got Microsoft to flinch.

    I'm not going to worry about being wrong. Being wrong is something that happens to everybody, at one time or another. This is a kind of war... although it's a lot more fun than a real war, and a lot less dangerous. When the enemy uses Fear Uncertainty and Doubt as his weapons, I will respond with Courage, Resolve, and Faith. I don't know a lot about military tactics, but I suppose that retreat is probably a poor battle plan. Retreat is something that you improvise when the time comes.
    Now, more than ever... BOYCOTT MICROSOFT! Go to http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/

  14. #164
    sarah31 Guest
    hop-frog, since you are convinced of linux's guilt i suggest you voluteer your time and money to SCO. otherwise let the case play out in the courts.

    Is SCO right? who the hell knows 80 lines of code that has absolutely no provenience is not a strong case. they insinuate they have more perhaps they do but right now they do not have very much going for them in the public arena. like several others have point out righ now it is just a case of he said she said.

    your logic that because they are suing for so much they must be right. well it s hard to say in many lawsuits people as for the sky and get nothing. the idea here though seems to be make huge dark claims and insinuate that they have the proof to back them and perhaps they will cop some money without going to court.

    it is all about scaring IBM and linux into giving them money for gratis. SCO does business this way because it is obvious they cannot turn a profit without doing so.

    SCO is stretching the interpretation of contractual laws and will have the hardest time proving that part of their case more so than the code end of it. actually SCO has yet to provide enough evidence to many that they even "own" the unix source that they are using to make the suit.

    Personally i dispise the tactics SCO is using. SCO is a business that cannot survive on their own merit so they resort to non business tactics to survive. even if SCO wins no one will work with them and they will still be out of business in a few years. afterall, if they are sucessful in all of their suits who would you expect to sell them hardware to run their systems.

    SCO is biting the hand that feeds them and that is alwaus a quick ticket into oblivion.

  15. #165
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    Question Could the SCO case be good for linux? A few scenarios...

    1. SCO LOSES An IBM victory in court gives Linux an enhanced aura of legitimacy.

    2. SCO WINS and the required changes to the code are so extensive that they present an opportunity for Linux to reorganize itself in ways that are more practical. Perhaps the existing distros get together, examine their respective weaknesses and strengths, and recreate themselves in ways that make the distro choices less baffling for newcomers. Perhaps they work together to create greater compatability beween distros. It seems unlikely that the scope of the required changes would come to this.



    3.SCO WINS , the code must be recreated, and Linux is given an opportunity to demonstrate its greatest strength. With a massive network of programmers all over the world, there is and never has been a software organization that is better equipped to deal with the need to quickly replace large amounts of code than Linux. If Linux has to rewrite the code, I believe that the clueless pundits will barely have time to publish their smug obituaries before the mirrors are up and running with the the new code. Darl has pretty much acknowledged as much in his public statements. This is what I think would probably happen in the event of a major SCO victory.

    Is this wishful thinking? No more than the doomsday scenarios put forth by the clueless. There are probably many more ways that the SCO case could be good for Linux.

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