Main "Hating Microsoft in a nutshell" thread


View Poll Results: Do you think making Linux and MS interactable (kinda) a good idea?

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  • Yes, this is a great idea

    3 27.27%
  • Yes, it's an ok idea

    1 9.09%
  • It wouldn't hurt

    3 27.27%
  • No, Linux should stick to Linux and Microsoft should stick to Microsoft

    4 36.36%
  • Or just use CrossOver Office

    0 0%
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Thread: Main "Hating Microsoft in a nutshell" thread

  1. #1
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    Main "Hating Microsoft in a nutshell" thread

    I first read about the Palladium Project last year. It was a 'scary' thing to read, but I dismissed it because I didn't think that these people had the right to introduce such a tyrant standard. Before installing linux I didn't have an idea of the almost total control this company had over my life, now they want to introduce this to the PC user, which will be everyone in a few years. Say goodbye to privacy, and teach your kids that newer isn't always better.

    I posted this on another message board, they were the initial ideas that came into my head after reading the micro$oft article.. so heh I was hot-headed. The HP-UX and Digital Unix comparisons came from a quick glance at the first chapter of a book covering the linux kernel.
    I'm going to "try" to make this a poll, but if it doesn't work maybe someone else can make it one.

    http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,58745,00.html
    Microsofts Article.

    http://www.notcpa.org/

    http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe...cgi?endtcpa1&1
    World-Wide Petition.

    "Since when does Microsoft care about how computers or software looks? Someone has obviously hacked and reprogrammed Bill."

    w0w!!! yea Micro$oft relies solely on it's performance benefits....

    "Formerly known as Palladium, NGSCB uses a bit of software that Microsoft calls the "Nexus" and a Security Support Component chip that encrypts stored data in a supposedly tamper-proof "vault" on hard drives. The vault is supposed to protect users' data from malicious hackers, viruses and spyware. "

    Hey.. only the government and Bill Gates in your PC now...
    Read up on Palladium and tell me what you think. I think it's the apocolypse to Microsoft, or the start of the technological war that has been brewing and talked about for a long time "Hackers" vs. "Money Hungry, sweat shop owning, fat assed, non-original Corporate Morons."
    Really, if the hardware companies were run by the real computer enthusiasts we would be 500 years in the future. It's amazing what a "Hacker" finds fun, and also what he can accomplish without a second thought.
    Ask your government why they supported Bill Gates First and Second Windows Realeases, and why they don't support NASA. Also ask them why there are claims from those original releases developers that there is components in the source code that store all kinds of information about the user. Now imagine Microsoft/Intels new "Hardware" approach, and think of what goodies will be stored on your new CPU or Hard Drive. extended L2 Cache -> early introduction.

    "We have a lot of pieces to put together yet, but eventually (NGSCB) will be a standard feature on all PCs," he said. "It's a breakthrough that both protects privacy and will allow computers to be used in ways they currently aren't secure enough to be used for."

    Yea ****ing A! They're hoping that they can securely spy on everyone without everyone knowing.

    "Co-developed by Microsoft and Hewlett-Packard"

    Hewlet-Packard. "Creator" of Unix variants: HP-UX and Digital Unix.

    "Athens' keyboard has a set of navigation keys that allow people to answer the phone or check their voicemail, e-mail or text messages with one click. Other keys control music or video playback. "

    HP's reason for buying out Compaq??? I guess the Compaq Internet Keyboard was too good to pass up. Indeed it does almost all these things.



    This won't be limited to the (P)ersonal Computer, it's going to be introduced as a standard... this goes against everything Productive in Technological Advancement. Now is the time for every person who loves his/her PC and his/her privacy to stand up and say NO.
    Last edited by Brocket99; 05-31-2003 at 01:21 AM.

  2. #2
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    Thumbs down

    I think the whole idea is just stupid. I mean who would like the idea that microsft knows everything you do. I'm against it!

  3. #3
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    Longhorn and TCPA stink

    I keep saying it over and over again: TCPA and all the spyware that currently already exists in Windoze made me a Linux user.

    I already said quite a bit about TCPA in this thread, if you care about your privacy check it out - especially my link to Ross Anderson's TCPA FAQ.

    Oh, and wasn't there this recent thread on the Patriot Act in dev/random?

    TCPA + PATRIOT = ???

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  4. #4
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    Well, by the time Microsoft will be able to introduce that TCPA crap, several provisions of the Patriot Act expire (December 1, 2005), and I am sure that any surviving provisions will probably be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

    However, I hate the idea of the long arms of the law given by the patriot act and TCPA being used to implement it. If a government agency has access to my PC within the privacy of my own home, what's to stop them from installing video cameras in my house?

  5. #5
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    TCPA scared me away from Winblows forever. What REALLY scares me about the TCPA/Palladi-dumb is that the way they talk about it, the average user will think it's a good, desireable trait in an OS. Linux will be ridiculed for not having that kind of "security" and Bill will use this as ammo in his attack against OSS.
    "Linux, as a non-participant in the TCPA initiative, doesn't have the kind of built-in security that Windows has, protecting the user from malicious code (blah blah blah)..."

    Also, another thing that scares me is that the TCPA chip on your Intel board may make it impossible, or at least more difficult, to install Linux on a box (correct me if I'm wrong) because it's designed to work with the "Nexus" software that, obviously, wont be included in Linux. Intel may become an OS-specific platform. Let us hope AMD doesn't follow suit, where will Linux go?
    I don't claim to be an expert, please remember that the above is just my rambling, probably long-winded opinion.

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  6. #6
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    You know, I liked how Linus Torvalds gave Digital Rights Management his blessing, saying it was a good thing, and....


    nothing happened.

    You'd think some people would have a cow over that

  7. #7
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    @ carrja99

    I remember you saying in the other thread that several provisions of the Patriot Act expire - however, I read in a german newspaper that your government is thinking about going for "Patriot Act II". If that's true, I guess we still need to keep our eyes open.

    @ plattybus1

    Don't be so sure that Linux will never have the TCPA security. In a German computer magazine (c't) unnamed insiders were quoted saying "With TCPA, one will finally be able to make money with Linux". Surely there will always be distors without TCPA - but the day may come where we see a distro released that includes the technology.

    We surely will have computers in the future running Linux and no TCPA - the problem is we may not be able to email people with a TCPA module anymore, though, because even our emails would be classified "untrusted".

    No matter how you see it - TCPA is going to be an interesting challenge to Linux.

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  8. #8
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    You guys are weird. Against making money? Who's ever heard of that!

    I honestly don't see the big problem with TCPA, but that's just me. What are you complaining about? What is so scary about it?

  9. #9
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    You have obviously misread me - I'm not against making money, especially when it comes to Linux. However, with TCPA the danger exists that Linux (i.e. distros) could be made proprietary software.

    I see a big problem with TCPA because it could affect the daily things I do with my computer. I wanna be able to play my mp3s in five years still without having them remotely deleted because they fail to fit whatever signature. And I don't know how happy MS Office users may be in the future when they read that their version of MS Word has timed out and they need to upgrade to whatever currently MS sells so they can continue their work. Oh yes, of course you're able to turn off your TCPA module - but what good does it for you when your software doesn't run with it turned off?

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Parcival
    @ carrja99

    I remember you saying in the other thread that several provisions of the Patriot Act expire - however, I read in a german newspaper that your government is thinking about going for "Patriot Act II". If that's true, I guess we still need to keep our eyes open.

    Actually, the Patriot Act II is not something the government is "thinking about going for". Keep in mind that the U.S government is 3 distinct branches, each one keeping the other in check. Several provisions of the Patriot Act were intorduced into congress before Spt. 11th and failed to pass... it was the hysteria after those events that paved the way for it's passage.

    Patriot Act II is denied existence, and after it was leaked, many Congressmen who reviewed it expressed their outrage over it, while other analysts have stated it is basically "a bill waiting for another terrorist attack". I find it very doubtful that it will pass, and if it does, there will be a large amount opf social unrest here (an by social unrest I dont mean stupid comments by actors who are out of touch with 90% of the population who speak against the government for publicity). The idea of the government stripping someone of their citizenship is something that would not be allowed under any circumstance, and which would never be supported. So, am I worried about Patriot Act II? No. The Patriot Act itself? Yes... go read my paper and you will see why.

  11. #11
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    Oh, I see, so you're afraid your pirated software and files will be deleted. If you really didn't do anything questionable, you'd have no real problem with it.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by redhat81
    Oh, I see, so you're afraid your pirated software and files will be deleted. If you really didn't do anything questionable, you'd have no real problem with it.
    Sorry if I disappoint anyone, but if the pirated stuff was deleted, I think that's really the right thing to to. However, I am against Palladium. If I was to buy something online, MS and the Gov't could get my credit card # and my address and my phone nunber and anything else they wanted. I doubt they would do anything with it, but they still have it. To me, it's like a cracker being in my computer and having access to whatever he wants. He might not use it but I still want my privacy. It's like someone taking pictures of you doing something embarassing. They might not use them, but you would still probably feel violated. I'm not sure who said this, but I believe it applies to MS: "Power does not corrupt. Fear of losing power corrupts." They're scared of losing control of the computing business, so they'll do weird things to try to get people to like them.

    Edit: MS would be like communism where a group owns everything... USSR... corrupt... Personally I like democratic socialism, but with one modified point: individuals have the right to own property.
    Last edited by ZAmodeo; 05-14-2003 at 10:29 PM.

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by redhat81
    Oh, I see, so you're afraid your pirated software and files will be deleted. If you really didn't do anything questionable, you'd have no real problem with it.
    That's not the issue. The issue is... do they have the right to virtually enter your home and remove warez from the pc? A person should have the expectation to privacy within thier own home, it is no different than police searching a person's home without a search warrant. It's not the fact that the person has something to hide, but it's the principle of the whole thing.

    When you open your door to letting corporate america decide what should and shouldn't be on your computer, where does it stop? Am I suppose to believe in good faith that this power won't be abused, and if I write a bad article on microsoft, if they'll delete it from my computer? Yeah, laugh all you want at my "wacko idea", but I feel I should have an expectation of privacy in my own home, and the 4th amendment protects my right to feel safe and secure in my person, home, and papers (papers meaning personal information, which SHOULD be adapted to today to computer).

    When you give up your privacy, you give up your freedom... one must be overtly cautious when thier freedom is violated. The system is not perfect, and TCPA is just one step to bringing Big Brother closer and closer into our homes. Keep in mind...

    Althought the intention is good, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

  14. #14
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    @ redhat81

    So I'm against TCPA because it could endanger my pirated software? Ummm, no.

    a) I'm running Linux only and I paid for my SuSE professional distro - no pirated software here.

    b) My MP3s are ripped from my CDs as I don't have a HIFI system (but a computer with a subwoover that rocks ) and I don't wanna flip CDs all the time. On my box you find MP3s like "Les Chansons de l' Abbé Bovet" - in other words stuff that is pretty much unknown to the world except for the people living in the French part of Switzerland. CDs on Bovet are released in small numbers, you can't download the tracks anywhere, and surely there's no digital rights management. Linux lets me play these things on my box - MS maybe soon won't. Duh, why am I complaining? The future will have enough happiness for everyone as we'll all be able to legally download digitally signatured Britney songs.

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  15. #15
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    There already IS a TCPA driver for the Linux kernel. It's not included in the kernel, but it was developed by IBM (for RH), and is distributed under the GPL.

    This has been discussed here before, including a link to those drivers (and a patch I made against them to make them less RH-dependent).

    TCPA is nothing more than a chip with a crypto key generator on it. That's all it is.

    Palladium is dumb, yes. TCPA is not.

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