Main "Hating Microsoft in a nutshell" thread - Page 2


View Poll Results: Do you think making Linux and MS interactable (kinda) a good idea?

Voters
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  • Yes, this is a great idea

    3 27.27%
  • Yes, it's an ok idea

    1 9.09%
  • It wouldn't hurt

    3 27.27%
  • No, Linux should stick to Linux and Microsoft should stick to Microsoft

    4 36.36%
  • Or just use CrossOver Office

    0 0%
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Thread: Main "Hating Microsoft in a nutshell" thread

  1. #16
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    So TCPA has no effect on any of you guys at all.

    Anyone can get a hold of your credit card info. Say you buy something online via Amazon, then all the folks at Amazon have your stuff. How does this let Microsoft have you credit card info if TCPA is securing it?

    Democratic socialism? lol
    Last edited by redhat81; 05-15-2003 at 11:39 AM.

  2. #17
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    TCPA is nothing more than a chip with a crypto key generator on it. That's all it is.
    That's absolutely true. However, I don't trust MS and its implementation of this powerful technology in its next OSs - that's why I stopped using Windows. I thought it's better to switch to a free OS and learn Linux rather now than later if it becomes an urgent thing to do all of a sudden.

    Of course Linux could hit the streets with TCPA technology some day, too. However, if it does, I have the comfort of being sure the community is carefully observing how it's implemented. With Longhorn/Palladium one doesn't have that option.

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  3. #18
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    Don't knock Billy Gates. He's just a corporate minded hacker. I mean come on, we owe him the BASIC programming language, and a lot of stuff on the Altair whatever that number was. He's a genius.

    On a different note, his cronies over at MS must be smoking crack if they think this will work. AMD will never follow through since they know that this is an excellent chance to snatch up some market share. Microsoft will never own the computers made by Sun, and Linux won't be affected by this. In the end there will always be ways around open architecture systems. You can always take control. It's Windows users that are getting ****ed. This is only playing into Linux's hand, MS just doesn't see it yet.

  4. #19
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    Jul 2002
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    MOOO!! I am cattle. In fact, I am dangerous cattle. I had a very unclean thought the other day. I wanted to listen to a CD on my computer, but I had already listened to that CD on my stereo. I almost played it without purchasing a second copy for my computer. So, I immediately rushed to Amazon.com and bought two extra copies so I could have one for my car and my computer. Then, when I was listening to my car copy in traffic, I accidently allowed someone in the car next to me to briefly hear my copy of that intellectual property because both of our windows were down. But, I did the right thing and wrote down their license plate number. I then took it to the DMV and found that person's name and address. Then I reported that content thief to the RIAA. That will serve him right for listening to the RIAA's music without their express written permission. I hope he rots.

    I look forward to the day when my computer will protect the RIAA and the MPAA from any other unclean thoughts I may have of using my hardware in an unauthorized manner. Until that day comes, I've prepared myself by only watching my DVDs once, then throwing them away. If I want to watch something again I always buy a fresh, clean copy. That's only fair to the artists and creative professionals who produce such wonderful content.
    Quaerendo Invenietis - J.S. Bach - "By seeking, you will discover."
    "Linux is about hacking and fixing problems yourself. . . Remain calm." - Welsh et al., Running Linux, 3rd. Ed.

  5. #20
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    Jan 2003
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    Welcome to 1984!

    I think this whole Palladium &TCPA thing is creepy, what gives them the right to know whats on my computer? Check out www.windows1984.com it's a cool site! And I'd just like to add.......F**K YOU BILL!!!
    Pull my finger!

  6. #21
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    Re: Welcome to 1984!

    Originally posted by windowsfree
    I think this whole Palladium &TCPA thing is creepy, what gives them the right to know whats on my computer? Check out www.windows1984.com it's a cool site! And I'd just like to add.......F**K YOU BILL!!!
    How can they find out what's on your computer again?

    You don't have to buy it if you don't want to.

  7. #22
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    Mar 2002
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    Originally posted by redhat81
    Oh, I see, so you're afraid your pirated software and files will be deleted. If you really didn't do anything questionable, you'd have no real problem with it.
    Define questionable. I purchase music, then I rip it into ogg format for my use, preventing me from scratching cd's and having to buy them again. Questionable? No, because I purchased it first. However, How do you figure you're going to be able to tell if someone has not done the same? You support this, so what you are saying is that you have no problem bieng watched, at all times, for you to slip up? Similarly, I would be pretty pissed off If I crossed the street at 4am, and the police officer that follows me around at all times tickets me for jaywalking. Thats where we don't want this to go, if you can understand that.

  8. #23
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    Again, I ask: How are they watching you?!?!?! How do they know what's on your computer? How do they get in?

  9. #24
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    @ redhat81

    It seems like you're thinking we're merely suffering from paranoia, so I don't know if I'll ever be able to give you an explanation you'll accept. Well, give me another try. I have taken this excerpt from Ross Anderson's TCPA FAQ:

    One of the worries is censorship. TCPA was designed from the start to support the centralised revocation of pirate bits. Pirate software will be spotted and disabled by Fritz when you try to load it, but what about pirated songs or videos? And how could you transfer a song or video that you own from one PC to another, unless you can revoke it on the first machine? The proposed solution is that an application enabled for TCPA, such as a media player or word processor, will have its security policy administered remotely by a server, which will maintain a hot list of bad files. This will be downloaded from time to time and used to screen all files that the application opens. Files can be revoked by content, by the serial number of the application that created them, and by a number of other criteria. The proposed use for this is that if everyone in China uses the same copy of Office, you do not just stop this copy running on any machine that is TCPA-compliant; that would just motivate the Chinese to use normal PCs instead of TCPA PCs in order to escape revocation. So you also cause every TCPA-compliant PC in the world to refuse to read files that have been created using this pirate program.
    bwkaz was correctly saying that TCPA first of all just is a hardware module storing your individual key. However, the question is what so called "trustworthy" servers your OS and apps get in contact with and how these servers are allowed to screen your system.

    Dear redhat81, you see the question is not how they're gonna hack into your system and contact your TCPA chip - the question is how far people (e.g. naive windows users), i.e. their software, opens the door.

    And this is where Linux comes into the game: even if the TCPA concept would become a central piece in Linux, the community knows what it's doing and how it works. If you just buy Longhorn and whatever Office and Media Player come with it, you don't.

    I hope I could give you a satisfying answer to your question. For me it is an important issue, because it turned me from a frustrated Windows user into a happy Linux lover.

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  10. #25
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    For me, it's the whole concept of 'trusted' and 'untrusted' computers......for example, a nice picture of a penguin i made using the gimp at home wouldn't be able to be opened in photoshop at work because my home PC is not palladium enabled. Or worse, is that my pc is palladium enabled but that content made by the gimp can't be classified as 'trusted' due to it's open source nature. I mean let's face it, if software has to be verified as trusted by palladium......it puts OSS at a large disadvantage because of it's lack of big money and it's constant development maps. How would CVS software cope?

    Too many weird scenarios for me

  11. #26
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    Cleveland, Ohio
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    If that will be the case, then excuse me, but screw them. If this is their attempt to crush OSS, in my opinion, it will fail to do so. However, when the dust settles, In the wake of TCPA/Palladium, all it will succesfully do, is widen the gap of segregation. I refuse to let myself be run like a chimp. I own the computer, the computer does not own me.

  12. #27
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    Well, experts to the topic are saying they'll probably have to live with two boxes:

    -the one at work that their company requires to use and that has Palladium enabled

    -the one at home which is still free (probably running Linux)

    I guess the ignorant Windows users will be the ones that will also run a "trusted" box at home because they don't know what they're doing to themselves. I predict that the more educated Linux comunity will lead such a "double box life" (as a lot of us already do) - unless MS crushes Linux. I mean, the example with the GIMP penguin pic is "harmless", far worse it's gonna get when emails from a free box can't be opened anymore in a "trusted" system.

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  13. #28
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    So you're only screwed if you break the law. That was obvious enough.

  14. #29
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    Dear redhat81, I really don't know anymore what I can do to explain my point of view to you.

    If I am running an "untrusted" Linux system and I'm sending e.g. the weekly newsletter to everyone in my club, it could be possible that all of my friends who run "trusted" systems either couldn't open my email or at least would have to accept opening untrusted mail (if the systems lets them).

    Sending a weekly newsletter to friends definetly can't be illegal, but if half of the addressees can't read it, I would definetly be screwed. What good would do the finest Linux system if it doesn't let you communicate with half of the world?

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  15. #30
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    Let me say that I maintain that I buy more, not less music when i am able to download free tunes, so I have no qualms about saying that I resent it if the industry manages to stop me from carrying on the practice. They're not going to get any more money out of me, and my life will become darker and less enjoyable.

    Microsoft and Bill Gates deserve their success. They have done much to bring computer literacy within the reach of ordinary people, and have made the world a better, more interesting place. THe problem is that they're not satisfied yet. The richest man in the world now has more plans his company, and, by extension, for us. No one seems to agree on just what palladium will do, and how it will play out, so the only real question is do I trust someone with such limitless *****ion to take care of this for me?

    Nope. Indeed, like for some others here, it is palladium that brought me into the linux tent, and that is responsible for all the time that I now spend studying shells, line commands and superusers.

    And I'm not sure exactly what I need so much "security" for, anyway. I've got my porno collection, but that's all legal stuff. In fact, except for my mp3 downloads, I'm pretty much a law-abiding citizen. I don't use a credit card online-- but if I did, I know that there are are many places where my information is more vulnerable than my home PC. In the future, says Gates, we'll be able to use computers in ways that they can't be used today be cause they're not secure enough. I keep seeing the quote, but then I don't hear any more.

    Presumably, palladium will make life easier for criminals and terrorists, unless government has a key, which means it will have a key to all our computers. The patriot act is set to expire, but the justice department has been aggresively lobbying for its extension, and ongoing investigations will not be affected by the expitartion. Right now the government defines organizations such as Earth first, who uses vandalism as a pro-environmntal tactic, as "terrorists". This means that if you belong to an environmntalist organization such as Greenpeace, or The sierra Club-- or maybe the Democratic party-- and you assiciate with someone in that organization who happens to also be a memeber of Earth First, your phone may be wiretapped by the government without you ever knowing about it under the Patriot Act.

    Patriot Act II seemed like a blueprint for martial law. The idea that it was only intended as a draft to be held in reserve for some possible future terrorist attack holds little comfort for me at a time when the US government seems hellbent on inciting that attack. After reading about Patriot II I am much more afraid of the "War on terrorism" than I am afraid of terrorism itself.

    Finally, I can appreciate that you're not going to force me to use Palladium... so why do you propose to force me to pay for it?You're not just giving this wonderful technology away, are you, Bill? That would be so... so Linux!
    Last edited by blackbelt_jones; 05-30-2003 at 05:58 PM.

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