Main "Hating Microsoft in a nutshell" thread - Page 3


View Poll Results: Do you think making Linux and MS interactable (kinda) a good idea?

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  • Yes, this is a great idea

    3 27.27%
  • Yes, it's an ok idea

    1 9.09%
  • It wouldn't hurt

    3 27.27%
  • No, Linux should stick to Linux and Microsoft should stick to Microsoft

    4 36.36%
  • Or just use CrossOver Office

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Thread: Main "Hating Microsoft in a nutshell" thread

  1. #31
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    What Microsoft, HP and its partners talk about is digital fascism. Call me extreme, but that's what it is becoming.

    NOW TESTIFY!

  2. #32
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    Originally posted by redhat81
    Again, I ask: How are they watching you?!?!?! How do they know what's on your computer? How do they get in?
    Palladium is only the tip of the iceberg for Microsofts plans at the end of the day. If you do need more convincing after reading the posts here, i suggest you read up on Microsofts plans for .Net.

    .Net basically means we wont 'save' data to hard disks anymore, everything is saved on a M$ Server. This hasnt been too successful because not enough people use high speed internet connections. But would you be happy allowing every single byte of data being stored on a M$ Server, where they have more rights to it than you do?

    for example, if i was coding a new device driver (or anything really, not important) i wouldnt want M$ to come along, wipe all my work clean, and then for them to use it themselves. they would be able to lawfully do this, since iv already agreed in the EULA that they have full rights to my data, since its stored on their servers.

    Palladium may be an effort to seperate Linux users from M$ users, and make them completely incompatible. As more people use windows than Linux, windows would surely win out and Linux would dissappear.

    M$ are not good for progressions in computer science, and that is what bothers me most.
    The Difference being, Hackers build things, Crackers break them

  3. #33
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    Originally posted by Disley
    Palladium is only the tip of the iceberg for Microsofts plans at the end of the day. If you do need more convincing after reading the posts here, i suggest you read up on Microsofts plans for .Net.

    .Net basically means we wont 'save' data to hard disks anymore, everything is saved on a M$ Server. This hasnt been too successful because not enough people use high speed internet connections. But would you be happy allowing every single byte of data being stored on a M$ Server, where they have more rights to it than you do?

    for example, if i was coding a new device driver (or anything really, not important) i wouldnt want M$ to come along, wipe all my work clean, and then for them to use it themselves. they would be able to lawfully do this, since iv already agreed in the EULA that they have full rights to my data, since its stored on their servers.

    Palladium may be an effort to seperate Linux users from M$ users, and make them completely incompatible. As more people use windows than Linux, windows would surely win out and Linux would dissappear.

    M$ are not good for progressions in computer science, and that is what bothers me most.
    well said Disley,

    I got rid of winxp do to the fact that I had to activate my new software in order to use it.
    I don't like the idea of anyone telling me that I need to phone home in order to use software that I have paid for. I know there are cracks out there on the net. but I don't like this whole concept in principle. no company or my government for that matter should have access to my computer without my knowledge & or permission. I do use windows still although I use Linux 90% of the time. I guess my point is Linux has given me control over my computer again. It just seems to me MS wants to take it away. IMHO win 2000 is the best OS MS as released.

    Like many before me have said Palladium, Longhorn has the potential to shut out competition ie OSX & OSS software. & this can't be good for anyone competition is good for consumers.
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  4. #34
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    Angry Enough is enough!

    You know, a lot of the theories I'm reading here about what palladium does or doesn't do really do seem far-fetched and around the bend.

    Buit you know what? I don't really care what's in Palladium. The microsoft code is closed; we don't know what's in there. And now, with Palladium, we're not going to be really sure what's in the hardware, either. And that's enough for me to say "enough".

    From Gates' speech at this month's hardware convention.
    "We have a lot of pieces to put together yet, but eventually (NGSCB) will be a standard feature on all PCs," he said. "It's a breakthrough that both protects privacy and will allow computers to be used in ways they currently aren't secure enough to be used for."

    What bothers me at this point is not whether Palladium is a blessing or curse to the average PC user. What enrages me is that he thinks he can decide what's going to be on every PC, and he doesn't even have to tell anybody. I intend to do everything I can to ensure that in the future, I don't have to buy a mousepad from this megalomaniac.

    We do know that Microsoft is capable of some pretty ruthless, anti competative business practices, and that it considers Linux a genuine threat-- a fact which demonstrates more than anything else the grandiose quality of microsoft *****ion. Linux is hardly a threat to Microsoft's business. It is a threat to Microsoft's monopoly. These people aren't thinking in terms of market share. They are thinking market domination-- and I say to hell with them.

    Plus, as we all know, their software is shoddy and expensive. Why should I use microsoft at all? Why should I take all of my data and translate it into a language that someone else owns? Because I'm too lazy to learn a few line commands? Because the new computer looks nice?

    We're never going to know what's in Longhorn, but I know one thing that longhorn is never going to be in-- my computer.
    Last edited by blackbelt_jones; 05-31-2003 at 12:32 AM.

  5. #35
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    What Microsoft, HP and its partners talk about is digital fascism.
    Hmm, no, I diagree. According to the definition of fascism, MS doesn't qualify for that. However, they qualify for the definition of tyranny - which is a precondition for fascism.

    Palladium may be an effort to seperate Linux users from M$ users, and make them completely incompatible.
    Yup, if MS wants to ban illegal Chinese liscences, they can as well ban interaction with free systems. If this happens, the Linux community will either grow like crazy or disappear. No matter what way, I'll die with my SuSE manual in my hands.

    We're never going to know what's in Longhorn,
    Well, that's surely true, but we can lean back and enjoy observing the new Longhorn users -and have the Linux bibles at hand when they're ready for the conversion.

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  6. #36
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    Re: Re: Welcome to 1984!

    Originally posted by redhat81
    How can they find out what's on your computer again?


    Turns out that Microsoft may not need Palladium to find out what's on your computer. Found this on the "Boycott Microsoft" Site. It claims to be taken directly the Windows XP EULA (End User Liscensing Agreement) in current use:

    "You acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may automatically check the version of the Product and/or its components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or fixes to the Product that will be automatically downloaded to your Workstation Computer."

    You don't have to buy it if you don't want to.

    Well, if you want to buy a PC, you apparently will. Here's Bill Gates himself, speaking at the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference, where he where he demonstrated the first prototype TCPA-enabled computers:

    "We have a lot of pieces to put together yet, but eventually (NGSCB) will be a standard feature on all PCs."

  7. #37
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    Talking Declaration of Independence

    Well, I just need to let off some steam to the world (or at least this message board )


    Screw Microsoft, screw Bill Gates, screw HP, screw Intel, screw Windows, screw Palladium, screw the RIAA, MPAA and any other "AA"s I missed!

    I am a free individual and I will NOT let my rights be comprimised by some money grubbing jerk who thinks he knows whats better for me than I do!

    I am tired of red tape! I am tired of "marketing strategies" and copyright law, the DMCA, the SSSCA bills, the utter crap that makes the world so much like garbage!!!

    I AM MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

    NOW WHERE'S MY DAMN ASPIRIN?

  8. #38
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    Talking Thanks Bill!

    The thing that amazes me, when i think about it, is how close we came to not having a choice. If not for the rather amazing origin and development of Linux, we would be completely at Bill Gates' mercy. He would be able to dictate the terms for us.

    But maybe that's not so amazing. Maybe the free software movement emerged precisely because Microsoft made it so necessary. When I think of a world without Gnu/Linux, suddenly Gnu/Linux seems an inevitable consequence of what Bill wrought.
    Maybe we should thank him...

    ...not!

  9. #39
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    We have a saying in the tabloids in England, it is what they call a 'Nanny State' where the Government dictates almost all the daily routines. Safety is a priority when it comes to speeding and generating money, safety and security are a priority when it come to the Health and Saftey Executive claiming their funding. safety is a priority when they are cutting firefighters jobs becuase the re-organisation will be better for 'The Public'. They threaten to privatise the CAA Airtraffic controllers here to 'save money and improve saftey'. Anyone who lives in the UK knows what privatisation does to services - it destroys them.
    You won't see the Government charging company directors with Corporate manslaughter the next time there is a train accident, you won't see the Government coughing up more money for the NHS at the expense of their own payrises. You will never see the Government going against the wishes of big businesses.
    Freedom of choice, thoughts and will is no longer accepted in the UK. You WILL marry and WILL have 2.5 children to tie you down for decades to the same **** job, **** company and **** life. The Government will screw the electorate at every given opportunity becuase we do not have the spirit or the balls to stand aginst them.
    The French may strike alot, but i feel they live better than us for it.
    And not to rub up our American members, but soo much of their culture does not work in europe and the UK is going to hell becuase of it and the people in charge don't want to stop it as they are being well paid.
    Microsoft and Governments work together because MS will do anything to get their hands on government secrets and contracts - once in it's very hard to get out.
    I sincerly hope Linux wins this war - it is everything i want in an OS and an idea.
    Windows and 'captialist democracy' stinks, not that i am advocating anarchy, but responsibility and accountability are required from not only businesses but i believe Governments as well.

    "The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem."
    -Milton Friedman

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  10. #40
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    Re: Declaration of Independence

    Originally posted by RaGe2012
    Well, I just need to let off some steam to the world (or at least this message board )


    Screw Microsoft, screw Bill Gates, screw HP, screw Intel, screw Windows, screw Palladium, screw the RIAA, MPAA and any other "AA"s I missed!

    I am a free individual and I will NOT let my rights be comprimised by some money grubbing jerk who thinks he knows whats better for me than I do!

    I am tired of red tape! I am tired of "marketing strategies" and copyright law, the DMCA, the SSSCA bills, the utter crap that makes the world so much like garbage!!!

    I AM MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

    NOW WHERE'S MY DAMN ASPIRIN?
    This is why nobody takes you guys seriously. Nobody has stated how it can be done, you simply say "oh, it can be done if someone has pirated [illegal] material".

    All you do is have someone feed you anti-Microsoft, anti-corportate junk and you repeat it.

    It's childish, really.

    And although many of you don't express you views like the kid above me, many of you have the exact same non-existant message.

    You guys just need something to complain about, don't you?

  11. #41
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    Re: Re: Declaration of Independence

    Originally posted by redhat81
    This is why nobody takes you guys seriously. Nobody has stated how it can be done, you simply say "oh, it can be done if someone has pirated [illegal] material".

    All you do is have someone feed you anti-Microsoft, anti-corportate junk and you repeat it.

    It's childish, really.

    And although many of you don't express you views like the kid above me, many of you have the exact same non-existant message.

    You guys just need something to complain about, don't you?
    umm, a good few million 'take us guys seriously', but thats not the point

    im still to find many good independant pro M$ articles, and most say the exact same thing. I can only repeat what iv learned, same with anything, be it Anti Microsoft or Facts to do with Swiss Cheese

    its not childish at all, i feel very deepy angry at Microsoft, because as i said before, they are bad for progressions in Computer Science. M$ want to basically own every single piece of technology there is in the world, and for Bill Gates to own it himself. Its a Power trip, and it goes completely against how any other market works (where the people with the best deals win. Windows is the only deal, but its a terrible deal)

    i express my views, but in different ways. Right now im sat behind 4 books, One working in the Linux Kernel, one regarding writing Linux Device Drivers, and then one for Programming Perl and another for BASH scripting. My main reason for this is so i can contribute to the open source movement, and write my own open source programs to be used in the Linux operating System. Im already setting up a very old intel machine, where i will be coding my own (small) operating system. Just because i dont sit behind this forum causing petty arguements doesnt mean i dont express my views.

    im also waiting for you to dissect my other post with the proverbial pro windows scalpal. I dont know how much you know about .Net or Longhorn, but since you appeared to dismiss my post, clearly not too much. in short, agree to .Net. as for Palladium, i just resent the thought of having to pay monthly fees to run software, and access my data.

    Also now that im able to easily run IRC/MSN/ICQ, iv found no reason to actually stay using Windows. Games are the only reason, but i dont play them that often anymore.
    The Difference being, Hackers build things, Crackers break them

  12. #42
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    @redhat81

    I don't know who's the problem here; wether it's me or you. Of course I know I'm never 100% right, but I guess I explained my case as best as I could.

    This is why nobody takes you guys seriously.
    Looking through the this thread I come to the conclusion that there are surely less critic posts, but it looks like all of them take me seriously - except you.

    Nobody has stated how it can be done, you simply say "oh, it can be done if someone has pirated [illegal] material".
    (a) I'll never be able to explain to you what Palladium/Longhorn exactly do because I don't program their code. However, I can try to guess its potential.

    (b) I don't have a clue how carefully you read posts when you refer to pirated material over and over again. Not everyone who advocates privacy automatically is a pirate, human beings are far more diverse than that.

    All you do is have someone feed you anti-Microsoft, anti-corportate junk and you repeat it.
    Yes, it's true, I'm repeating other sources. However, I don't repeat things blindly, there's an act called "self-reflection" inbetween. Figure this: if I just sat in my little room and made up arguments against MS, the product of my imagination would be the pointless rant you accuse me of. Going out and collecting other resources and trying to assess their credibility, I'm able to state my case far more convincingly. This world is a world run by specialists, and nobody can possibly know everything. I admit that I'm not a TCPA specialist; but I sure do have skills enough to find the specialists who report about a topic I'm interested in.

    If you wanna challenge me, you're welcome to. I do take you seriously, but only as long as you present good arguments. Calling us pirates and implicitly diagnosing paranoia doesn't get the job done - after all I don't lead this debate by refering to you as cattle.

    Your turn to play the ball, pal. Hit it hard(er).

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  13. #43
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    Isn't it kind of funny that someone is telling users of free software that they're pirates?

    Palladium is one of many things that helped tip me toward Linux. One of the great things about Linux is that it will run nicely on older systems (I run a Celeron 400) and therefore help provide a buffer from the forced upgrade cycle. I don't think my little old PC would run XP well with its resource requirements, let alone the next piece of MS bloatware. It does, however, run Mandrake 9.1 with a KDE front end without skipping a beat.
    A few thoughts about Palladium -
    1. One good crack and the security myth is shattered. And you know it'll happen.
    2. What will Palladium cause for those who like to build their own systems? The possible snares on this range from none to catastrophic. How do I certify my system (hardware configuration and all) as trusted after I build it? What if I want to use an older OS that I have a legitimate license for?
    3. I wonder how the IT people of large corporations are going to take to the entire Palladium scheme. It's entirely possible that we'll see large blocks of the corporate world refuse to go with it, on the advice of the IT departments. And large corporations can also dictate to their vendors that compatitble hardware must be used, which can have a trickle down effect.
    In short - it's my computer, I will choose how I use it. Not anyone else.

  14. #44
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    1. One good crack and the security myth is shattered. And you know it'll happen.
    I don't agree on that one. Assuming that intelligent people work at Microsoft who learn from the past (like the Win XP registration crack), they're gonna shut down those holes, too - especially when Palladium is a nice feature to do so.

    The way I see things, "secure systems" of the future will only allow access to "secure users" - in other words, if somebody wants to reversively engineer Windows or parts of it, he/she would have to identify him/herself first. In other words, if those systems are logically built, you can either hack them and be traced down or remain locked out.

    In my oppinion Windows users who wanna keep using Windows but need to hack it first before they feel comfortable with it, make a logic mistake. Why putting the effort into hacking it and become tracably illegal when you can get with Linux the OS of your choice?

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  15. #45
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    redhat81 is a perfect representation of the Microsoft user.

    Don't question why a company that has never once indicated that they understand security is now suddenly pushing the "Secure Computing" initiative. If Microsoft is so concerned about the sanctity of my box, why do they ignore fixing buggy, easily exploited MS Software in favour of a "newer better way".

    Microsoft is scared by the continued evolution of non MS products and has, knowing that the closed source model of software creation requires creative thinking or great products to clone, decided that the answer is to label their competitors untrustworthy.

    Linux is perhaps less of a threat on the desktop that an i386 OS X would be, but this is rapidly changing.

    Dough

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