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Thread: Just booting tips

  1. #16
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    Talking Re: Just booting tips

    Hello, again, 'saikee'.
    Quote Originally Posted by saikee
    My face turns red when reading your compliements.
    At least red is a natural color (unlike some others), indicating that you are modest, although you have obviously learned a great deal about Linux and are generous enough to share your knowledge with us, 'saikee'.

    Quote Originally Posted by saikee
    I benefit a great deal from reading the JustLinux posts and comments from the moderators.

    I see this thread, an indeed myself, as an end product of the effort from various forum members/moderators in helping me to understand Linux since I joined as a newbie.
    I feel the same way about my experience in the JustLinux forums, 'saikee'.

    I remember one of the earliest threads that I started, soon after I'd installed Linux (SuSE Linux Professional 8.0). I wanted to download and compile the source of the program (the name of which escapes my feeble mind right now) that SuSE (long before Novell's acquisition) used to generate all of the amazing graphics on its retail boxes for SuSE Linux Professional and SuSE Linux Personal. The project's page on SourceForge.net indicated that it apparently had been dormant for two years.

    After the exchanging of many messages (beyond the patience of most mortals), a very kind woman provided me with step-by-step instructions for retrieving the latest version of the source code from CVS, which I had never used before, and -- after retrieving the source and compiling the program -- I was soon generating some amazing graphics from the program's command-line switches.

    I will have to try to find that thread. The woman who helped me patiently held my hand over the course of a few days, even retrieving and compiling the source herself to ensure that I (a total stranger) would have no problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by saikee
    I cut my teeth here and am pretty pround of it. I carry this thread (and some other JL threads) as signature in other forums too.
    I, too, 'saikee', "cut my teeth here," and I continue to benefit from JustLinux. I do my best to offer help when I feel qualified, because I see JustLinux not only as a source of help, but as an international community -- and I feel that it is my duty to try to contribute to this community, which has done so much for me.

    I have been using Linux for over four years now, but I consider myself a neophyte/"newbie" in most areas. I am grateful to moderators and fellow members of JustLinux, 'saikee', including you.

    Thanks, again!

    Cordially,

    David
    Linux Distribution: Debian GNU/Linux (Desktop & Server)


    Registered Linux User # 315892
    * * *
    <http://ddickerson.igc.org/>

    "In a world of absurdity, we must
    invent reason; we must create
    beauty out of nothingness."
    -- Elie Wiesel


    Gary Arthur Weaver: 18 July 1942 - 29 December 2006

  2. #17
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    Okay, saikee, now I'm in the need for holding my hand for a little while walking through this.

    This morning I installed Xubuntu Feisty Fawn (first) and Windows 98 (second) on my mom's old laptop that still meets the Xubuntu minimal requirements.

    This is my partition table:

    Code:
    /dev/hda1 FAT32   /windows
    /dev/hda2 swap
    /dev/hda3 reiserfs /
    /dev/hda4 reiserfs /home
    Now to the core of my problem:

    The Xubuntu installer is stupid. The installation went more or less until the end when it said it can't copy GRUB to /target/ - with /target/ being the RAM-disk. Therefore I quit the installation since it was almost done anyway and planned to add GRUB manually later.

    Then I installed Win98 to hda1 which went smoothly except that the old laptop now refuses to read any CD.

    So there I went, created a GRUB bootdisk with your booting tips and did

    Code:
    root (hd0,2)
    setup (hd0)
    but got the answer that neither /boot/grub/stage1 exists nor /grub/stage1. Obviously Xubuntu has completely failed to even copy the package into hda3. So now I'd like to install GRUB into the MBR and have all the menu.lst etc. reside in hda3. How do I need to proceed?

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  3. #18
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    Update: I can boot Linux with the help of booting tip G2 (God bless tab completion!), but how can I make this permanent? My poor mom can't be confronted with using a GRUB disk everytime she turns on ehr computer.

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  4. #19
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    OK I got your message.

    I think the easiest way out is to boot up Xubuntu CD as the recent version can work as a Live CD.

    You can find all the files needed by Grub in a ..../grub subdirectory in the filing system of the boot-up Xubuntu. It should be in a directory of

    Code:
    /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc
    Inside you will find all the necessary Grub files like stage1, stage2 stage1.5 , etc . Just copy the content of this directory into the Xubuntu hard disk partition hda3 you are installing. Put it in as /boot/grub of this partition which you use to mount Xubuntu's "/".

    Once you done that fire up a Grub shell in the boot-up Xubuntu (I mean the CD version, as the hard disk version isn't bootable yet) and ask Grub to install itself there by the command you have used before, that is
    Code:
    root (hd0,2)
    setup (hd0)
    Grub will work this time as the files needed are available.

    Up to this point your Grub only boots to a Grub prompt, same saituation as using a bootable Grub disk. However as you can boot Xubuntu up manually the commands are in fact "the" same commands you need if you have to create a menu.lst inside /boot/grub directory.

    Your menu.lst therefore should have for booting Xubuntu something like
    Code:
    title Xubuntu in hda3
    root (hd0,2)
    kernel /boot/vmlinuz........
    initrd /boot/initrd....................
    The difference between manual booting and automatically from the hard disk is in the former you omit the "title" statement (marked red above) and you need to add the "boot" statement as the green light for Grub to proceed.

    I trust you have no problem of adding a "default" statement to allow the user to boot to Win9x, by putting these lines infront of the Xubuntu lines in menu.lst

    Code:
    color black/green yellow/cyan
    default 0
    timeout 10
    
    title I am Win98, press the "enter" key boot me please!
    root (hd0,0)
    makeactive
    chainloader +1
    Don't think the "makeactive" statement is needed here because no one is going to make it inactive but there is no harm to have it. I have added the color statement so that you can vary whatever the color scheme to please your mom.
    Last edited by saikee; 05-20-2007 at 10:33 AM.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by saikee
    It should be in a directory of

    Code:
    /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc
    Inside you will find all the necessary Grub files like stage1, stage2 stage1.5 , etc.
    Ahh, that was the hard part I didn't know. From this point on everything else went smoothly, thank you very much.

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  6. #21
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    Jun 2007
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    3

    Just Booting tips & more

    Greetings Everyone,
    Being sick of Windows XP and fed up with it freezing up my new computer on daily bases I decided to switch to Ubuntu that "just works". I have downloaded the Ubuntu 7.04 and burnt it onto CD. I decided to install it on one of my three internal HDD (320 GB WDigital SATAII) . The first thing that I lost was a mouse. That happened 15 sec after a sort of Welcome screen with an install icon appeared on my monitor’s screen. As my keyboard was still working I proceeded with installation of my Linux without a use of the mouse, thinking that it was just a small driver problem. Anyway, the installation was successful although I used keyboard only and I had to restart the system. Of course anyone can guess what had happened next. I got that terrible message :
    GRUB loading Stage 1.5
    Grub loading, please wait....
    Error 21_
    At very first minute, when it happened I went browsing for forums on the other computer and thanks to MR Saikee’s advice I at least restored Windows boot by running fdisk/mbr from FreeDOS. But returning to Ubuntu was impossible.
    Now since I found a number of forums, what really scares the hell out of me, is that I don’t understand a word you people are saying about Booting Tips, Installation, and about a hundred other things.
    But it gets better!
    For the foolproof and an OS that “just works” – Ubuntu seems to have awfully a lot of users having nothing but problems with it. Because I am a total dummy in regards to Linux and I ain’t no computer expert either it makes me very frightened. How do I get all the knowledge about installing, booting and configuring Ubuntu? Is there a book or a website with those step by step instructions?
    I need to come back to Windows every now and then (I use CAD and haven’t got a Linux version), but with those boot problems I stumble and can’t do a thing about it beside keep restoring a MBR.
    All that tech jargon on forums doesn’t help. Thank you for any advice, tips and instructions you can give me.
    My Comp Configuration (just in case):
    Intel Core 2 duo CPU 2.4GHz
    7300GS nVIDIA 256mb graphics
    4GB RAM
    on ASUS P5N-32 SLI Premium Motherboard

    with regards,
    Alexander

  7. #22
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    Alekander,

    Welcome to JustLinux.

    JustLinux has a lot of experienced Linux experts who can talk "-" and "." in the commands but there are newbies at the bottom of the food chain like myself who try to make thing simple whenever possible. Having said that some explosure into the Linux terminal commands will guarantee huge reward. And if I may say so the terminal commands of Linux is perhaps representing at least 50% of the wealth of that OS hidden from the desktop. I survive on only one text book "Linux in a nutshell".

    This thread has a hidden message of that the two most lethal booting weapons are

    (1) Grub bootable floppy (or CD or pen drive)
    (2) A Linux Live CD.

    You can boot any PC system by the former. The latter is the universal tool to "restore" any Linux boot loader.

    You should isolate your problem and concentrate to solve them one at a time. The mouse problem can be overcome if you plug in a PS2 mouse as some distros can mismatch a mouse driver easily especially if you are using a fancy one.

    According to Grub Manual, which I always consult by just Google, the error 21 is
    Code:
    21 : Selected disk does not exist
    This prompts me to believe the problem lies with Ubuntu or you may have altered the disk order in the bios causing Ubuntu to boot to the wrong disk other than the one it was originally installed.

    To resolve the problem you need to do the following

    (a) Stop messing around the boot disk order, freeze it now or a setting that it works for at least one system.

    (b) post the output of the following after booting up Ubuntu CD, which can be used as a Live CD

    (1) the terminal command of "sudo fdisk -l"
    (2) /boot/grub/menu.lst (tells us how Grub boots Ubuntu)
    (3) /boot/grub/device.map (tells us the boot disk order at time of installation)
    (4) /etc/fstab (tells us the partitions the kernel has been instructed to mount)

    The Item (1) tells us every partition of everyt disk in your PC

    The Items (2), (3) and (4) are to be obtained from installed Ubuntu partition which you need to mount it first from the boot-up CD. If you do not know how just supply the Item (1) and we shall advise.
    Last edited by saikee; 06-04-2007 at 10:35 AM.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

  8. #23
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    Jun 2007
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    Saikee, you're Champion!
    Thanks a million!
    I will try, but how to access command terminal from within live CD ?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksander
    I will try, but how to access command terminal from within live CD ?
    You have several options:

    1. some liveCDs allow you to boot into a "shell only" environment.
    2. Just open a Terminal that comes with your desktop (Gnome/KDE/etc).
    3. On any Linux machine, press Ctrl+Alt+F1 (to F4). F7 gets you back to the GUI.

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  10. #25
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    Alekander,

    With Ubuntu Live CD you can follow either Item (2) or (3) suggested by Parcival.

    Item (2) is always available if you are booted to a graphic desktop as in the case of Ubuntu. Just click the icon to go deeper into the menu and you will find "terminal".

    The terminal command "sudo fdisk -l" will show up all the partitions in every disk. At this point if your are running a boot-up CD you are using the Ubuntu version of the CD. Every boot-up Linux has a filing system tree which you can see by command "ls".

    To see/read/write an "installed" Ubuntu partition in the hard disk you need to mount this partition on the filing tree of the boot-up Linux and its /mnt directory is the common mounting point for such a purpose.

    If you look at the output of the "fdisk-l" you will see a list of partitions. Depending on how you installed it the Linux will show up in several partitions of Type 83 and 82. The first type 83 partition is likely to be the one holding /boot directory whereas Type 82 denotes a swap partition. Assuming it is partition sda3, the first one with type 83, you can mount this partition by terminal commands
    Code:
    mkdir /mnt/sda3
    sudo mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/sda3
    ls /mnt/sda3
    You can proceed to mount any partition "manually" and view its content this way.

    In mounting you always mount a "device" on the boot-up Linux filing tree so as to access its content.

    It is possible that the modern Linux like Ubuntu might have mounted every partition for you "automatically". Do a search /media and /mnt in the desktop. I am reasonably certain Ubuntu uses /media for mounting partitions whewereas older distros would use /mnt.

    To display a system file you need to use the terminal command "sudo cat /mnt/sda3/boot/grub/menu.lst". To edit it would be "sudo vi /mnt/sda3/boot/grub/menu.lst" but you need to know the basic commands of "vi" in order to use the line editor properly.

    Ubuntu does not permit a root login to the graphic desktop and system files may be locked and not displayable to an ordinary user. However pre-fix every terminal command with "sudo" can give you the root privilege In Ubuntu family distros. Therefore you can use a graphic editor in terminal by command
    Code:
    sudo gedit /mnt/sda3/boot/grub/menu.lst
    if you find "vi" tough going. "vi" is available in 99% of Linux in terminal mode whereas "gedit" is only available in distros with Gnome its use in terminal is not always implemented. Knowing a little bit of "vi" is a good insurance policy if you are serious about Linux.
    Last edited by saikee; 06-08-2007 at 01:24 PM.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

  11. #26
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    Jun 2007
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    3
    Thank you Guys! You rock!
    That's all I need for now.
    I definitely have to get a PS2 mouse. Both the keyboard and the mouse would not work if connected to USB.

  12. #27
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    Bangalore
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    Thanks for the quick guide. Great job
    Cheers,
    kvrprasad

    http://adda.hostbigger.com

  13. #28
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    Aug 2005
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    I have just found this on google and bookmared two old theads and this one
    http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showt...=149956&page=2
    http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showt...=143973&page=2

    First of all just great guide. I think you are currently the human on work who has understand multibooting the best. Booting is and multi booting is still one of the themes where you can`t find the informations million times on the net. Some questions are open for me, would be nice if you can answer.

    1) I have just one computer for testing and I don`t want to touch my productive system. Therefore I am already quite confirm with VMware. Sadly VMware does not support booting from USB yet. You know any other virtualizer who can?

    2) Or another question. You seam to have your grub on floppy. I don`t have a floppy anymore and do not really want to really on it. If I train and learn grub with (virtual) floppy inside VMware can I use later an USB-stick to replace floppy?

    3) Could this work: 1. boot from an USB-stick and start grub 2. boot another OS from USB-stick/harddisk?

    4) Any experience with full disk encryption? Could this work: 1 boot from USB-stick and start grub 2. boot TrueCrypt bootloader from another USB-stick 3. boot Windows?
    [url=http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/6138/]TrueCrypt - Full Disk Encryption - Documentation Request - please vote - any advancend user can contribute starting a wiki article[/ur

    ---DONT PANIC--- ASK.

  14. #29
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    (1) AFAIK VMware, or the free version that I run, is just a mangement layer inside a host OS which can either be a MS Windows or a Linux. Thus you just boot to a Windows or a Linux and VMware is just a program inside.

    When you call up a guest OS inside the host, by VMware, there is no real booting involved. The guest OS does not communicate with the outside except with the host, at least that is what my free version behaves. Many functions of the a guest system are not activated by VMware and booting is one of it.

    I haven't tried other virtualizers yet.

    (2) AFAIK Legacy Grub can be put in a floppy, USB device, CD, DVD, internal hard disk or external hard disk. You can also install Grub lagacy without an operating system attached to it. The best bootable media for Grub, apart from a floppy, is the CD. This is because neither a CD nor a floppy upsets the hard disk order. When using a USB flash drive to boot that drive becomes the 1st bootable disk and forces all the other disks go up the order by one.

    (3) You can boot up Grub in any USB device and use it to boot other systems in any other media (except CD and DVD), but do take note the disk order as mentioned in Item (2) above. I have not gone into Grub 2 yet.

    (4) I don't think encrypted partition will work with either Linux boot loader Grub or Lilo. Grub and Lilo need to be able to read the partition in order to load the kernel and initrd files. This is if Grub boot a system directly.

    However when booting indirectly Grub can boot any other boot loader if it conforms with the PC standard and resides in the boot sector. All MS unencrypted systems do that but I have no experience with the encrypted partitions. I got the feeling it will work as the boot loader doesn't get encrypted because it is never part of a filing system and always stored in a binary format.
    Last edited by saikee; 04-02-2008 at 10:45 AM.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    17
    (1) I think VMware does "real" booting (emulated), it can boot up cd, hd and floppy currently.

    (2) Ok, I understand. Does grub1 have a find by name feature like grub2?

    I don`t know currently what is better. grub1, grub2 or syslinux. However, thought your help booting is now much less a mystery story for me.

    (3) Great info.

    (4) Normally grub can chain load any unencrypted bootsector very well. Unfortunately it isn`t working with TrueCrypt. The TrueCrypt bootloader seams to be a bit different from normal bootloaders, violating any standard I have no idea. Bios can boot TrueCrypt bootsector, grub not. I should try grub2 maybe it is even better for this situation.

    (5) I add a new question. Do you know how to chain load another bootsector from USB if there is no native support for usb booting from bios?

    That`s already possible for no native support for booting from cd. First a linux kernel initializes the device and then chain loades another bootsector. Very compliated, I did not found any success story's on google.
    [url=http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/6138/]TrueCrypt - Full Disk Encryption - Documentation Request - please vote - any advancend user can contribute starting a wiki article[/ur

    ---DONT PANIC--- ASK.

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