How to install and boot 145 operating systems in a PC - Page 5


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Thread: How to install and boot 145 operating systems in a PC

  1. #61
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    Glad you have got it sorted.

    Do try different boot loaders and find it out yourself which one is the best or the easiest.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

  2. #62
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    About independent Grub

    Grub is now installed in MBR by ubuntu(which is installed on sda3).
    I want to install a independent grub on a prepared partition(sda1) and chainload the original ubuntu grub.
    Here is what I've tried:
    I mounted sda1 to /media/sda1,made /media/sda1/boot/grub,copied /boot/grub/* to there,made /media/sda1/boot/grub/menu.lst like this:
    default 0
    timeout 10

    title Ubuntu
    root (hd0,2)
    chainloader +1

    and reboot.

    I press c when grub showed up and
    root (hd0,0)
    setup (hd0)
    reboot

    the newly edited menu appeared.

    Everything seems fine to me untill I choose to load Ubuntu.
    Nothing but the word GRUB stayed there.

    I had to change the menu back then.


    I guess something is wrong,isnt it?
    Gateway T1616,Ubuntu

  3. #63
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    Yes.

    An operating system is only chainloadable if it has a boot loader occupying its partition's boot sector.

    Your Ubuntu was booted directly and so it would have no boot loader inside the boot sector of sda3. There was no need to chainload it before so the installer would not implement it. This is the default situation even the boot sector is empty.

    You can now make sda3 chainloadable at the Grub prompt ( by pressing "c" key at the Grub screen instead of selecting s system to boot) with command
    Code:
    root (hd0,2)
    setup (hd0,2)
    Your Ubuntu will answer your Grub call from (hd0,0). In fact you can fire it up immediately without a reboot by

    (1) Fire up sda3 immediately by command (as your current root is (hd0,2))
    Code:
    chainloader +1
    boot
    or

    (2) Tell Grub to start from the beginning by command
    Code:
    chainloader (hd0)+1
    boot
    Last edited by saikee; 12-08-2007 at 11:42 AM.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

  4. #64
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    I learned a lot from your enlightening essay.
    I've rearranged the spaces of my hardisk without losing my original OS,and I'm able to install & chainload as many new OSs as I want!
    Thank you.
    Last edited by DaNmarner; 12-08-2007 at 07:45 PM.
    Gateway T1616,Ubuntu

  5. #65
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    Glad you like it. I was hoping it could be useful to some.

    I always say to others that if there something difficult in Linux it would not be in the booting.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

  6. #66
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    saikee,

    You are a godsend. Using a standalone GRUB install as you have described is absolutely amazing. You have allowed me to demo WinXP, PC-BSD, CentOS, Ubuntu, Debian, and Mandrake to my customers all from my laptop without having to use bulky VM's on the old antique.

    I applaud your dedication, and letting this old schlub stand on your shoulders to do amazing things!

  7. #67
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    Xaiver Merlyn,

    Welcome to Justlinux.

    I am glad the few things I picked up and summarized from the super mods and knowledgeable members here are found useful by others in addition to myself.

    It looks like you have managed a good collection of distros.

    VMware has its place but it does not give us the full functionaliies of each distro. A user can boot as many systems as he/she like and still can have a couple of the systems to host VMware. Nothing needs to be compromised.
    Last edited by saikee; 12-13-2007 at 06:35 PM.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

  8. #68
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    HOWTO grub -> LVM2. | grep 'no /boot partition'

    saikee,

    Thanks, (in one word only, for it means all).

    I have two options.
    One, keep searching to find the answer. Two, ask saikee.

    Question is
    "How difficult is howto boot straight into LVM2. I mean no standalone /boot partition."

    First option I like because It is in the search mode I came to know about your FANTASTIC article. Second option I like because I prefer an authority (yes) like you to put the quest to rest ASAP.

    Why I ask this question? Because I believe it SHOULD be possible!!!
    What is the need? Because in future systems, 'we may not have partitions'.

    Thanks,

    xpluaks
    Last edited by xplusaks; 12-23-2007 at 05:24 AM.

  9. #69
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    xplusaks,

    Welcome to Justlinux.

    Thank you for the kind word but I am just a student here. The super mods and experienced members here are the real masters.

    Regarding to booting LVM2 I am afraid I have a bad news. Both Grub and Lilo cannot read a LVM and that is why a /boot partition, usually in Ext2/3 filing format, is always needed whever a Linux is held inside a LVM.

    I believe one of our Villgae elders, super mod bwkaz, may have done some work on this area but it doesn't sound like an easy job to incorporate a driver into Grub to boot a LVM.
    Last edited by saikee; 12-22-2007 at 08:37 PM.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

  10. #70
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    Booting Multiple Distros

    Saikee,

    I expected it and you have proven it - your prompt reply. So this time thanks for keeping the faith alive.

    I have been experimenting with multiple boot and multiple distros and have the handicap of starting late, I mean I already have partition scheme that is not suited for the purpose. Next round of clean up can only take care of that.

    But what I am doing is already discussed in here. Multiple distros on single partition. One principle is to use the technique similar to rescue disks, and chroot may hold some helpful keys. But ultimately this business of multiple distros in one box must start addressing virtualization, at some appropriate stage.

    Advantages would be
    1. Coupled with LVM, there will be no concern about space required for individual distros.
    2. On the fly intake and chuck-out of individual distros, adding to adv 1 above.
    3. Ultimately leading to next level of virtualization where you hitch-hop-hike from one to next. Great asset for shifting mission critical boxes with minimal disruption.

    Let's keep sharing.

    xplusaks

  11. #71
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    Personally I agree that

    (1) virtual machines and

    (2) LVM

    could be the key to access multiple distros either simultaneously or one at a time in future. However I don't think they are ready yet.

    I am using both and the experience so far are

    On Virtual machines which I used XP as the host I found this to be a disappointment. For a start one is limited by the number of systems that can be run online as each one takes away a portion of the ram. One can run about 4 guests with a host (recommended by VMware) before the slow speed becomes unacceptable as every online system is reduced to 1/4 of the ram available. For offline systems virtual machine has the advantage of mounting them without reboot the host.

    The major disadvantage, which could be restricted only to the free versions I can download (but I think technically it is an uncharted area too), is that the guest is effectively in solitory confinement as in a prison isolation cell. The guest can communicate to the outside world only with the host and cannot see or communicate with fellow guests in the same PC. The very fabric of using a Unix-like system to mount a partition of a hard disk is denied because the operating system resides in a file of the host and not actually in a partition.

    On using a LVM to host disfferent distros my disappointment is that many distro installers are not equipped to be installed into an existing LVM while others simply omit the LVM driver all together resulting the distro can't even recognise a LVM. Thus there is an uphill struggle to install a big population of the distros into a LVM making booting a large number of Linux out of the question at this stage. LVM is also foreign to M$ systems, Solaris and BSDs and appears to be suitable for Linux only.

    To boot 100+ or 150+ systems and have the flexibility of using each system to the full the only easy and practical way is to install each system normally in a partition of a hard disk and boot all of them by a boot loader. I do feel all other alternatives should be judged and compared with this basic approach, of having a normal installation in a harddisk partition booted by a boot loader, because that is what every operating system is supposed to offer to a user.

    Many users can regard virtual machines and LVM are superior if they have no need to use many functions, available if installed normaly, of the operating system.
    Last edited by saikee; 12-23-2007 at 07:25 AM.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

  12. #72
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    If you want to do LVM, you'll have to use grub2 -- but the problem is, no distro that I know of has actually adopted grub2 as the default yet. Plus the directions on how to use it are pretty sparse -- you have to do a lot of guessing and testing and blindly trying things (unless someone has written a manual recently? nope, the "documentation" page still says "under development"; rats).

    I was thinking about trying to put together an LVM stage1.4 (similar to the FS-specific stage1.5 files) for grub-legacy a while back -- but I figured that since it would never actually get added into the "real" grub (since nobody upstream is interested in adding features anymore), I never started. Plus grub2 does have support for it, so it's kinda pointless anyway (if development would ever hurry up and get done on grub2 ).

    What you can do is make a 500-meg /boot partition, and share it between all your distros. They'd all put their kernels and initramfs files there, and so each of the kernels would boot. (They'd have to support root-on-LVM natively, but I think most new-ish distros do, so hopefully that's not an issue.) Plus you don't take up a partition for each distro. It's not the greatest solution, but it should work.

  13. #73
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    bwkaz,

    Greetings!

    I did remember you once told me that you did hacked Grub to install your own driver.

    I was close to doing a thread on putting multiple distros into LVM. My strategy was to offload the distros into a LVM; first by expanding the iso on a loop back device, secondly transfer it into a logical volume, thirdly amend the isolinux and substitute it with Grub. All these I believe can be done by a script. I abandoned the project after finding

    (1) Ubuntu installer does not mount the LVM and regards it as unknown partition.
    (2) Small distros like DSL, Puppy and Slax family do not entertain LVM
    (3) I couldn't get Slackware or Slamp64 installed into the logical volume I want.
    (4) Debian recognise the LVM but the installer want to take over the lot.

    I managed to squeeze Foresight, Fedora 7, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS and Mepis into the LVM but there are too many obstacles to overcome.

    I decided to let the Linux mature a bit more before looking at the LVM scheme again.

    I am rather disappointed by Grub2. In the last 3 years it has not managed even with a simple documentation. Its ability to support LVM at boot time has yet to be proven. I could be wrong but there seems to be some indication of some effort may have gone to make it compatible with M$ system trust computing or the new hard disk partition table.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by saikee
    I did remember you once told me that you did hacked Grub to install your own driver.
    I remember talking about doing it, but I never actually did it -- if I implied that I had, sorry, but that was wrong.

    (1) Ubuntu installer does not mount the LVM and regards it as unknown partition.
    Ouch; that's a fairly large problem, considering the usage of Ubuntu...

    (4) Debian recognise the LVM but the installer want to take over the lot.
    That's probably the second large problem...

    I decided to let the Linux mature a bit more before looking at the LVM scheme again.
    From your info above, that's probably a good idea. Hopefully by the time distros start cooperating with LVM2, grub2 might (possibly) even be used, which will help too.

    I could be wrong but there seems to be some indication of some effort may have gone to make it compatible with M$ system trust computing or the new hard disk partition table.
    Is that EFI, or something else? I remember a bit of talk a while back about getting it to support EFI-capable BIOSes, rather than the ancient IBM PC BIOS interface. I believe EFI systems use a different partition table too. I am fairly sure Vista has some basic EFI support, though I have no idea how complete (or well-tested!) it is.

    The trusted computing stuff is junk, though... if they're getting into that boat, I have even less hope for having it ever actually work.

    (Of course it would probably help if they had more developers...)

  15. #75
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    bwkaz,

    yes I was referring to EFI. I read some articles relating to EFI or similar schemes as basic building blocks for bringing about the trusted computing.

    The EFI is only being sold by Itel and there seem to be a couple of M$ systems implementing it either partially or as an alternative.

    I have also read that Vista user can select it as an alternative to the legacy partition table currently used in PC Bios.

    Personally I see M$ systems have a far bigger need to switch to a new partition table system because the limitations of their existing Oses trying to be backward compatible.

    Linux is not in a hurry to change because a Linux can migrate freely from partition to partition, from hard disk to hard disk and has no preference of the partition type or the location in the hard disk. It is only the proprietary software requiring protection of their interest that needs to improve on the restriction against migration of the operating systems.

    You introduced me about the major and minor numbers of partitions used in Linux. The EFI is not going to be of any real use unless the major/minor numbering system got overhauled in Linux or Unix-like systems.

    Thus I still think the current partition table scheme will remain operational for a long time until a new replacement can prove significantly better.
    Linux user started Jun 2004 - No. 361921
    Using a Linux live CD to clone XP
    To install Linux and keep Windows MBR untouched
    Adding extra Linux & Doing it in a lazy way
    A Grub menu booting 100+ systems & A "Howto" to install and boot 145 systems
    Just cloning tips Just booting tips A collection of booting tips

    Judge asked Linux "You are being charged murdering Windoze by stabbing its heart with a weapon, what was it?" Replied Linux "A Live CD"

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