How much do programmers get paid?

[pointreyes]

I hope a college degree is not required because I'm seriously thinking about going into programming or DBA.

I have 15 years of database design and programming. From dBase III Plus to SQL Server 7.0. I am currently teaching myself Oracle and dabble in db2.

I have been told by many people that I'm the type of programmer they need because I have common business sense. I can tell the customer what they want and what they did not realize they wanted because my business skills is based on a huge amount of programming and accounting experience. No degree but every application I create causes a smile on the customer's face because they never realized that a product could be so good. Problem: location. Most jobs are government which I currently hold and to obtain a tech position is hard because techs HATE (I mean really HATE) accountants that program. This makes is hard to get a job in government in the tech area when you are already an accountant. Would I make more money? Yep.

[pdc]

Mr PointReyes,

Accounting is a good background for programming. Especially if you are writing programs that utilize your accounting knowledge. I don't think the folks at Intuit coded up Quicken without using some accountant/programmers.

If you have a Linux system, you are in business. You got your apache server, free DB engines, perl with DBI and a leg up on the MS ODBC weenies. You can commit your work when everything is hunky-dory, according to your own standards.

Paul

[nanode]

I find this thread personally validating.

I just graduated w/ a BS in bus. admin last May. Now I'm working as a developer for a large software company. I didn't start with a huge salary, but my projects have a lot of exposure.

In my case, most companies wanted me to start as a field consultant or technical sales. From the professional programming experience I'd had, I knew that a clueless, non-technical manager is very frustrating to developers - and I did not want to become one.

I'm by no means doing badly w/ my income, but I rationalized accepting less $ for the opportunity. I figure a year or two here, then I can pretty much do whatever, and get paid accordingly.

In the mean time, I enjoy flexible hours, wearing blue jeans to work and have a very cool boss.

[Lucefiel]

Originally posted by Dru Lee Parsec:
Go to school and get that degree, even if it doesn't teach you anything you need in the real world (and they usually don't). But it will get you in the door. Then, for the rest of your career start studying the topics that will keep you in demand. And study tham as hard as if you were still in school. You'll probably raise through the ranks faster than I did.

I sincerely hope you're wrong because, even though I will be going to college for 3-4 years (I'm in year 2 now) I'm not going to be getting any kind of degree. At least not yet. I will, however, have my CNE (hopefully CIA) and my second MCP (is that possible?) by the end of this year, and will get my MCSE and CCNA by the end of next year... If they've added Advanced NDS Diagnostics and Troubleshooting (and the other classes) by then I'll go for my CDE.

But no BS for me!


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May the best of your past be the worst of your future.

[nanode]

A coworker of mine has a bumper sticker in his cube, "Certification doesn't make you smarter than me."

I fully agree with that and what Dru Lee said about *needing* the BS.

Personally I learned a lot from going to college. I didn't learn very much technical stuff in the classroom, but I made friends and got exposed to many things. I never would have gotten into Linux if I hadn't met people and shared ideas during that time.

I don't mean to judge people who don't follow this path, but I feel very strongly that it was a positive thing for myself and many other people.

Some people let the ends justify the means, others let the means justify the ends.

[njcajun]

I think there's something fundamental we're missing here...

If ALL you do is write code, you aren't going to realize your full earning potential as a programmer. You're going to be locked in a back room somewhere with a bunch of smelly geeks who do nothing but write code.

The top paid programmers are ones that have other skills that lend to an overall understanding of the technology universe. Yes, Java Programmers make a lot of money, but if you have done some database administration and can code Java in the database, you could be HUGE. Or if know how to program in C++ and also know UNIX administration or network programming, you could also be pretty HUGE. What else can you do? Architecture? Application partitioning? Middleware?

I don't have a degree. I have worked as a DBA/SA for Sybase, and have done Java programming as well. I'm now moving to a company where my main job is doing UNIX administration, even though I've never really done that (primarily) before. The reason is that the company does sys/network integration, and I've worked with a lot of different software and environments, and I have a bit of a knack for troubleshooting. I only touched a computer for the first time in August of '98, and I'll earn over 80k over the next 12 months, and I live in NJ! It's a consulting firm, so I'll probably be taking the 1hr. commute into the city for a lot of the clients.

The point is, in NYC, a Java programmer averages close to 70k. A Java/Database guy gets you up to 90 with over 1 year experience in Java/db. 6 figure salaries are out there, but you need to keep at it and constantly be working and improving and continuing your training to stay on top. 175k is certainly not out of the question in my area, but usually it's for a very specific 'niche' job - not a general programmer.

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...meanwhile, I remain...
...The RedHatted Stepchild...

[Mazarin]

I'm a junior in high school, college is coming up pretty soon. I'm starting to wonder if I should even bother with it. I've been running linux for about a year, know several programming languages, I don't go a day without learning something new and I hope I never do.

I hear so many success stories from people who didn't even go to college, but then others say that the little slip of paper you get is priceless.

[This message has been edited by Mazarin (edited 15 October 2000).]

[error27]

>You're going to be locked in a back room somewhere with a bunch of smelly geeks who do nothing but write code.

Oddly enough that idea sounds fairly good to me right now. So long as the other guys are good and the product is a qualitie product.

I'm getting my CS degree right now. After this semester I'll have about 20 credits left before I graduate. (But it will end up taking 3 semesters because of the way that the classes are offered.

There are _no_ tech businesses in northern MN where I live so I think I'll move to California as soon as I graduate. (My brother lives there too). Up here there is no one who's going to hire you to do computer stuff. So it's impossible to get a computer job straight out of high school.

I would say that most CS major do not end up programming for a living. There are so many other things you can do with a computer science degree. But most of all I want to be a programmer and a darn good one.

[ccm13]

Lots of interesting points of view. Even though I didn't start the topic, it is an interesting one. My thanx out there to all who contributed.

I'm going back to school now to get an ***. in CIS right now. In the ball park of 30 and wondering what to do next, school, work combo? I don't really like programming to much (although I think Perl is cool for what it is) but am really interested in Networking & Security.

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"You miss 100% of the shots you never take" (Wayne Gretzky)

To contact: Remove "nixspam_" from email address.

CCM13

[Garett]

Damn... 18/hour for McD's? Dang... why the heck am I working for USR when I could be making the cash doing what Sweede is doing.

Garett

[Sensei]

Originally posted by Mazarin:
I'm a junior in high school, college is coming up pretty soon. I'm starting to wonder if I should even bother with it. I've been running linux for about a year, know several programming languages, I don't go a day without learning something new and I hope I never do.

I hear so many success stories from people who didn't even go to college, but then others say that the little slip of paper you get is priceless.

[This message has been edited by Mazarin (edited 15 October 2000).]

From a friend of mine who works for Oracle:
Larry Elison gave a speech at Princeton University recently to a graduating class. He said, "Congratulations, but you have all missed the boat. You should've dropped out 2-3 years ago.

Case and point; top 10 richest people in the world.

1) Bill Gates
2) Points to himself--that would be me (hes not the 3nd richest anymore (stock market))
3) Paul Allen
etc."

Makes you think? Makes you sway in your decision?

A degree doesn't depend on a persons success.
Success is in your hands not a University's. Just ask some of my friends who have degrees what they are using them for.

1)lawyer--selling shoes

2)accountant--doing foreclosure real estate for someone else

3)CIS degree--trying to start up a biz/working at a sunglass hut

4)tv production--unemployed

It all depends on what you equate success too though. If we use getting a 80k per yr job as being successful then this is very attainable for someone in a short period of time. In the times we live in one does not need a degree to achieve that either in the programming field.

What that person would need is a dynamite resume with tremendous experience and be a programming stud.

One thing I learned from past jobs is don't sell yourself short if you know your good. Well in the beginning you need to take it in the arse. After that though don't sell yourself short. I took little pay to get out of a part time situation. I worked my *** off for this co. for underpaid position hoping I would get a monster move in my salary considering I was doing the role of a DBA and web designer/web developer/reshaping their business model and saving them potentially millions. Rewards are budgeted always remember that!!!!!

The best part of college or at least the best it will do for you is not the paper you receive at the end, but the experience that has helped you grow as a person.</profound statement>

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Sensei
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[MrNewbie]

Damn! You people scared me, now I'm not 100% positive I can make a lot as a programmer

[kmj]

Originally posted by MrNewbie:
Damn! You people scared me, now I'm not 100% positive I can make a lot as a programmer

There's never anything you can be 100% positive of. If you like it enough, you'll be good at it and you'll make plenty of money. But if money is your goal, go into business or something.

[toolie]

If money is your only motivation, you are going to have a lot of problems. Do something you love to do. Don't convince yourself that you love something just because of the money - be honest with yourself.

If you are not doing something you love, you are going to end up hating your job. That is one of the leading causes of depression. It goes downhill from there.

Money isn't everything - happiness is hella more important.

[MrNewbie]

I do love programming, so far, its the only thing I really do like. But I still wanna make as much as possible.
MrNewbie