Re: Partitioning Question
Hello, 'saikee'!
Quote:
Originally Posted by saikee
...The irony of Linux boot loaders (Grub and Lilo) is they were designed from day one to boot any operating systems you care to install in a PC. Any Linux, Dos, Windows, BSD, Solaris and Darwin makes no difference. The number of OS isn't an issue either.
...If a user installs the first Linux and places its boot loader in the MBR. He can installs say another 99 distros but keeps everyone in its root partition. Then the rest of the 99 distros can be booted exactly like a Window, using the same commands as described in above post #29, changing only the partition reference for each distro. It is jnothing other than just editing the Grub's configuration file /boot/grub/menu.lst (or /etc/lilo.conf if Lilo is used) for the distro controlling the MBR.
Grub can boot more than 100 systems in one menu but Lilo's menu is restricted to 27 entries. A relay system is needed for Lilo if you have more than 27 systems to boot to.
Multi booting in Linux has to be the easiest. If the user knows just 5% of what Grub or Lilo can do he/she can actually let the installers to arrange everything without lifting a finger.
From my limited experience with Linux if a user can install an operating system in the PC then Grub (or Lilo) can boot it.
Both Grub and Lilo were written to conform to the PC standard of accessing the hard disk. In that respect these boot loaders can boot systems before Grub or Lilo was invented and any future system that has not yet been invented yet, as long as it does not deviate from the PC hard disk access convention.
Thank you very much for your very informative overview of bootloading in Linux and the power of Linux bootloaders. :)
I very much appreciate the time and effort that goes into such posts, which I consider to be definite "keepers" that I print and file. :D
I have been using GRUB since the days of SuSE Linux Professional 8.X, when SuSE (not yet acquired by Novell) standardized on GRUB.
I have been using SuSE Linux since I first started using Linux in 2002, and I obviously have not acquired the in-depth knowledge that you have, 'saikee'.
Given the problems with SuSE 10.1 (despite the fact that I purchased the retail version with installation support from Novell), I am not sure how my installation will go, but I am hoping for the best. (Trivia: SuSE 10.1 is the last retail version of SuSE, but most people are using OpenSuSE anyway.)
Early this year, I purchased a used Dell Dimension 8300 on which I plan to install Windows XP Professional -- and I will be free from having to dual-boot between Linux and Windows.
I do, however, want to try other Linux distributions besides SuSE. I have become very interested in Debian GNU/Linux, although I have concerns about hardware detection. Still, the only way to experience Debian is to install it. (I have read, and continue to read, about it -- on-line and in books.)
Your posts on partitioning and bootloading, 'saikee', are very helpful to me, because I obviously am going to have to modify GRUB in order to be able to select and boot different Linux distributions. I thank you for your contributions to the JustLinux forums. :)
I also need to research Distrowatch.com to see what other distros I might want to test seriously in the future (i.e., distributions that I probably will leave installed).
Interestingly, I believe that the next stable version of Debian ("etch") and OpenSuSE (10.2) are both due in December, although such dates are subject to change, of course.
I definitely need to do as much research about multi-booting Linux distros with GRUB as I possibly can, 'saikee'. Obviously, I don't want to risk losing my primary, production distribution!
(In addition, a friend recently gave me the discs for the latest version of FreeBSD, as well as two books. I had never really given BSD much thought, but it might be interesting to try: I started out with UNIX in 1991, telnetting to a system in San Francisco and doing everything from the command line; I had no idea that Sun had a GUI -- CDE -- for Sun OS/Solaris.) ;)
Thank you, again, 'saikee', for such informative posts! :D
Cordially,
David
Re: Partitioning Question
Greetings, 'saikee'! :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by saikee
DavidMD,
You can install as amany system as you wish. The majority of my distros is installed in a 5Gb partition. Since a swap will be created after the first Linux you therefore can continue one partition per Linux until the hard disk space runs out.
A Sata, being a SCSI hard disk, allows only 15 partitions whereas an IDE disk can give you 63 partitions.
BSD systems use a slice for installation which is effectively a primary partition. A BSD subdivides the slice into BSD subparts (swap is one of them) and so looked upon by Linux as an extended partition. Mixing a BSD with Linux distros in an extended partition can generate partition boundary errors so be careful. Otherwise you can install a BSD and boot it the same way as a Window.
The two most lethal weapons in booting are a Grub floppy (with only Grub stage1 and stage2 files inside, created by dd according to Section 3.1 of Grub Manual) and a Linux Live CD.
You will find a humble Grub floppy (or burn it into a CD if you have no floppy drive) will boot every OS system you care to install in a PC. The Live CD is useful if the distro uses Lilo. However a Grub floppy can boot up any Linux including one that hasn't got a boot loader installed.
If you do want to try different distros and BSD then print out the Grub manual and let Grub serve you the way its creators have intended. There are plenty of tips in my signature.
Enjoy the Linux to the full and its booting power.
Thank you very much for your detailed and informative message. As usual, you provide me with the information to take advantage of the full power of Linux by giving me clear explanations and by pointing me to information that I can study myself -- in this case, the official GNU GRUB Manual (Version 0.97).
My Linux workstation tower, which I built myself about four years ago, is showing its age. It has 1-GB of RAM, a 2.0-GHz (no hyperthreading) Pentium-4 processor, and three internal IDE hard drives. I built the machine with so much "loving care," and it has such excellent ventilation, that I want to keep it, although I wish that I had the funds to "gut" it and rebuild it from scratch again. (I am going to install two new 120-GB Seagate replacement hard drives and a new 128-MB 3-D video card, to replace the 32-MB Matrox AGP card.) This machine also has a Yamaha CD burner and a Sony dual-layer DVD burner.
The used Dell Dimension 8300 that I bought in early March has a 120-GB Maxtor SATA drive, a Dell/Nvidia 128-MB GeForce video card, a CD-ROM drive, and a DVD burner. The Dell has 1-GB of RAM (expandable) and a 3.0-GHz (with hyperthreading) Pentium-4 processor. Because I always have Linux in the back of my mind, despite the fact that this box is/was to be my Windows XP Pro box, I feel a bit torn letting Windows have the faster machine; I did remove all of the proprietary hardware (except the motherboard, of course), ;) in case I should decide to make this machine a Linux box (assuming it won't overheat).
I was planning, originally, to use the refurbished IBM NetVista that I got for free for FreeBSD, before I decided to use it as a server for MySQL and Oracle 10g. I appreciate your warnings about "mixing" BSD with Linux, which I know is possible but feel a bit uncomfortable about doing (especially since I have no idea about FreeBSD and hardware compatibility).
You mention, 'saikee', that the majority of your Linux distributions occupy 5-GB of disk space. I assume that you are sharing some partitions, such as the swap partition?
I especially appreciate your advice about the "lethal weapons" of a GRUB floppy or a Linux live CD, 'saikee', although I lack the expertise to understand how I could use a Linux live CD to cause my workstation to "multi-boot" Linux distributions. I will search the JustLinux forums and Google/Linux to try to find basic information and details on how to set up such a Linux live CD.
I have thought about using my 32-MB USB drive/pen instead of a floppy, because it would be more durable than a GRUB floppy, but my motherboard is probably too old for me to set BIOS to boot from a USB device. (I think that there is a general alternative boot option called "Other.") I'll need to get that box set up and see what I can find out.
I apologize for this long message, 'saikee', and I don't expect you to reply: I am extremely grateful if you have simply read this message! ;)
I am a technical-writer by trade and a writer by nature, and I continue to be amazed by the power and potential of Linux. My enthusiasm is limitless, so I am eager to spend every spare moment reading about Linux and open-source software.
I recently left a message in another thread started by someone who wants to use Linux but made it clear that he or she has no interest at all in doing any "heavy" reading. The consensus of all responses was that the person should not try to get involved with Linux if reading a great deal is a problem. :p Seriously, it's too bad that people who would love Linux won't make that initial investment of time to do the necessary reading. Linux is not Windows, nor is it Mac OS X; it must be accepted and explored on its own terms -- but the rewards of the "learning baby steps" have been extremely fulfilling for me.
(Four years ago, I was thrilled to learn how to compile from source and to get my video card working; now, I am considering branching off from SuSE Linux, at least to try other distributions -- perhaps Debian Linux first, an adventure that I know will be not be painless and for which I have been preparing by reading for about a month.)
Thanks, again, 'saikee'! :D
Cordially,
David
Re: Partitioning Question
Hello, again, 'saikee'!
I have been reading the GNU GRUB Manual (0.97).
When you refer to using a Linux live CD, are you referring to making a GRUB-bootable CD-ROM?
Thank you, in advance, for your time, patience, and help! :)
Cordially,
David
Re: Partitioning Question
Greetings, 'saikee'!
Quote:
Originally Posted by saikee
In the last link of my signature I have documented two different methods to burn Grub into a CD. One of the two is based on the Grub manual, which I duly mentioned as the reference. They both work fine.
You will find some time in future that the Grub floppy or CD is all you need to boot up any installed system. With it you can boot up any PC unknown to you, ask Grub to display the hard disks partition information and the content of the boot loader configuration file. Thus you can manually boot up any Dos, Windows or Linux without any prior knowledge. Grub is totally system-independent. Everything you see in /boot/grub/menu.lst are the commands you can type in manually to boot up the OSs. When you use Grub in a floppy or a CD, with only its stage1 and stage2 files inside, Grub is unattached to an operating system and seldom hangs. Therefore you can enter commands repeatedly by trial and error to get what you want. Believe me the best teacher is the box in front of you. Nobody has taught me more than the computer itself.
To ease the maintenance I always put a Linux in a single partition. They all share the same swap. In fact most Linux installers find the swap and use it without telling me.
I keep all my personal data in a separate FAT32 partition accessible by all systems.
Thank you very much for your detailed and helpful message.
I noticed the extremely helpful links in your signature quite some time ago. You have helped many people, and I am grateful.
The GRUB link is especially applicable to me right now, obviously. ;)
First of all, after I do some minor hardware updates on my (aging) Linux workstation/tower, I plan to install SuSE Linux 10.1 (the retail version from Novell, although I may have the same problems as users of openSuSE 10.1).
Assuming that I am successful with SuSE 10.1, I will then be ready to try to apply the growing information about GRUB that I have -- because of your help. :D
I would like to, for example, install Debian GNU/Linux as a second distro on the main hard drive of my workstation. (The second drive is for backups, which is another knot I will need to untie.)
I have not yet decided if I want to leave GRUB entirely on the hard drive, or use a GRUB diskette or CD-ROM. Based upon all of my reading so far, I am not yet sure which method is appropriate for me.
My days of putting Linux and Windows on the same computer are over (I most certainly hope!). :cool: Now, I am entering the more "interesting" realm of wanting to be able to boot from two or more Linux distributions, without messing up my "production" distro.
Again, 'saikee', thank you very much! :)
Cordially,
David