Ubuntu is amazing!

[MorphiusFaydal]

just downloaded 5.04 "Hoary Hedgehog"

and i think i'm definately liking my old gentoo installation much better than this whole ubuntu thing....

i do have to say though, the HW detect is pretty nice, but it sucks on my monitor.. couldnt get the monitor right (i have dual displays, and it detected the primary monitor, on DVI... and then applied those setting to my small, crappy monitor on the vga port [dual head vid card].. now, that monitor couldnt take it at all.. and it was not good looking at all...)

So, it's good for n00bs, but i'll definatly be doing a gentoo reinstall soon (only reason i tried ubuntu was because my gentoo install got fried.. gcc3.4 != stable.. well.. maybe it was my CFLAGS )

[blackbelt_jones]

I have to say, now that I've actually run Ubuntu, that my experience suggests that the idea that Ubuntu is a good newbie distro is a cruel hoax.

Sure, it installs easily, and the hardware detection is flawless. This may be the first distro I've ever used that detected EVERYTHING, and required no input from me. But actually getting applications to run on Ubuntu turns out to be a lot more complicated. I'm going to focus on one example: Realplayer.

In order to get Realplayer to play on Ubuntu, you have to use the configuration editor to disable the enlightened sound daemon. I've run Realplayer on several distros and never had this problem before, but the bytch of it is that it installed fine, appeared on the applications menu, and when I tried to use it to play web content, I didn't get an error message. It just didn't play. If ions hadn't sent me a link to a page on the Ubuntu forum, I might have never figured it out. Compared to this sort of baffling mystery, the small amount of hardware information I need to supply to install Sarge seems like a small price.

That was the worst example, but there were more problems and inconveniences. You have to edit the /etc/apt/sources.list file to run apt-get, which you don't have to do after a Sarge net install. You have to update before you use apt-get, or else it's a mess. You need to install plug-ins in order to run Totem. That was when I reached for the debian-installer disk.

It took me about an hour to install Sarge off the net, (of course, without a broadband connection, it's a different situation) but with Sarge everything just worked, without any tweaking. The /etc/apt/sources.list file was all set up, and it took me about ten minutes to apt-get everything I needed to start running.

To be fair, Ubuntu seems like a nice, polished, desktop distro, very smooth and responsive.

[jefjj01]

See, thats where in every distro the saying goes "your mileage may vary". I didn't have any of those experiences you explaned. I did everything your talking about without editing any config files or anything. I have full multimedia capabilities just by following the instructions in the unofficial Ubuntu manual, and I have no idea what you mean by having to edit sources.list.

I don't think its fair to say it doesn't work...just that it doesn't work for you. Thats too bad too. I know people like to say that Ubuntu is just for newbies, but I have mine cranked up to a full developers box and I still think it rocks. I also use it at work as a build box for development. First distro I feel attached to. The momentum behind Ubuntu continues to grow to. For most the honeymoon seems to still be in full swing.

But, like the saying goes..."your mileage may vary".

[blackbelt_jones]

Originally posted by blackbelt_jones
I have to say, now that I've actually run Ubuntu, that my experience suggests that the idea that Ubuntu is a good newbie distro is a cruel hoax.

I think that my original statement, quoted above with italics added, is suffuciently qualified that I can stand by it

... but I wonder if you got what I was saying. I think Ubuntu is presently a good distro for advanced users (like you, I'm thinking) who want a slick, polished, responsive desktop-- but based on my experience, it's NOT a newbie distro, cause for me nothing seems to work without tweaking. If we're talking about the hypothetical new linux user, I think we would want to be able to predict his/her experience. And I want the new user who finds Ubuntu frustrating to know that there are alternatives.

Anyway, far be it from me to interrupt your honeymoon. After all, this could all be fixed by the time the next Ubuntu release (Greedy Groundhog?) comes out.

[Sgood1971]

Just for the record, there are now a couple of scripts floating around the Ubuntu forums that will add all the right sources and install all of the appropriate multimedia packages with next to no fuss or muss. It really should be easier to find though since if you are a true newbie even finding the right answers on a board is sometimes a little hard to do. I have no problems with it, but I don't use it for my working box either. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

[jefjj01]

Hey blackbelt_jones, I did mis-interpret you. I will also back peddle a little. I did get everything installed by following the unofficial Ubuntu documentation, but I do realize that I float to the command line more than I am aware of sometimes. I guess the difference for me is what little I do on the command line is so simple any poweruser can do it. For a user that never wants to tweak anything I would agree with you.

A big part of the problem is that Ubuntu does not ship with much multimedia enabled. I actually thought multimedia was still poor in Linux because I never realized until just a while back just how easy it was to turn everything on. I understand the politics behind why distros do not ship with that stuff enabled, but the typical user could care less. I find it interesting that multimedia is not shipped, but to get it is insanely easy. Its like saying "don't rob my safe, but if you need the combination..."

Lately I have found myself addicted to virgin radio that I play via Realplayer.

Anyway, far be it from me to interrupt your honeymoon.

That cracked me up

[CoffeeMan]

All I have to say is that I am really impressed with Ubuntu, I installed Warty when it came out and Hoary when it came into development. My dad is no running it on his Sony Vaio laptop and there are no issues. Ubuntu Hoary Hedgehog is definitley worthy of recognition. I would like to see the Debian Development environment become a reality because ubuntu debs are not entirely compatible with debian and it's brethren. Other than that, it is an excellent distribution all around. I would narrow my favorites down to (In Order) Gentoo, Ubuntu, Debian, SuSE, and Slackware....and other operating systems FreeBSD, Syllable, Menuet and FreeDOS.

[blackbelt_jones]

You know, I want to stress that overall I was favorably impressed with Ubuntu, enough that I plan on trying it again when the next version becomes available.

When I said that the /etc/apt/sources.list file needs editing, I refer to something that's very elementary for a an advanced user, but could be pretty baffling for a new user. The urls for the "universe" repositories are there, but they need to be "uncommented" in order to be enabled. With Sarge installed off the net, apt-get is already set up as part of the install. I think that's a clear advantage for a new user, but for an advanced user, it doesn't really matter much at all.

Until I get a lot better at compiling and lose my dependence on apt-get, it's all gonna come down to Debian vs. Ubuntu for me. So the worst thing I can say about Ubuntu is that, in my opinion, it's only the second best distro. I love the idea of Debian as "the universal operating system", with all the flexibility that entails. I think that Sarge (unlike Woody) is a pretty good newbie distro that I can take in any direction and use for any purpose as I grow in competence. But I also think that a debian that is designed to be more specific to the desktop is a fine idea. I approve... but I think that, for the sake of the newbie (again, based on my experience), that the Ubuntu folks need to focus as much attention on an easy setup as they obviously have on an easy install.

[paj12]

When I said that the /etc/apt/sources.list file needs editing, I refer to something that's very elementary for a an advanced user, but could be pretty baffling for a new user.

This can be done with 3 or 4 clicks in Synaptic, the GUI package manager. Also, here is a page that gives great instructions on how to get "non-free" formats working. Still, this is a lot of crap to go through when the average user just wants to play their videos or MP3s.

[GmarAppledude]

I have been using Kubuntu for a few weeks and love it. I have to say that if multimedia (Codecs) had been installed by default this would have had two impacts.

1) I would have seen this as impressive and user friendly.
2) I would have missed out on the grin on my face after having learned how to install codecs myself!

I am new to "Modern" Linux, as the last time I used it was over five year ago, and that was mainly Solaris (UNIX) console stuff, so these issues are new to me but still found the instructions on the Ubuntu web site easy to follow.

[ions]

Multimedia codecs and some libs aren't included due to licencing issues. Don't yell at Ubuntu about it, yell at the owners of these formats to make their licences better.

[jefjj01]

Don't yell at Ubuntu about it, yell at the owners of these formats to make their licences better

That is what people are saying. This has been an ongoing theme in this thread. Ubuntu has hit a new level of user friendliness and for many the only thing holding back the experience is lack of multimedia right off the bat. The instructions are easy enough to follow...at least for a person comfortable with doing a few relatively simple commands.

[Sepero]

Originally posted by jefjj01
That is what people are saying. This has been an ongoing theme in this thread. Ubuntu has hit a new level of user friendliness and for many the only thing holding back the experience is lack of multimedia right off the bat. The instructions are easy enough to follow...at least for a person comfortable with doing a few relatively simple commands.

Something that might be even MORE user friendly is if someone wrote a script or program that automatically installed multimedia support.

One prog that auto installed multimedia, Java, Flash, etc. No configuring at all. Bingo! Now that's user friendly; that's the power of Linux! I would love to see that.

[Rinias]

Ubuntu, Ubuntu!

It was great to see it install. It still boots up pretty well. Multimedia seems to work (even with no script- just synaptics and multiverse/universe). But there are things I don't like...

First, I'm on an AMD 64 laptop. I've got an nforce3 mobo. After buying a new DSL modem so that I could have internet and update, etc things improved. Had to get a modem/router combo cause the modem I had which worked in 32-bit refused to install on 64... Anyway...

Things that bother me are the Flash 64 plugin in synaptic which kills firefox if the site has flash. Multimedia (.mpg .mpeg .avi) playback that is just "off". I mean, I'm watching a clip where the drummer hits the cymbol and half a second later it resounds... Or Robin Williams makes a farting sound during his stand-up and you see it before your hear it- in fact he's already miming something else at that point. Same problem with DVDs.

And my harman/kardon speakers are only in stereo- the two closest to the monitor don't get anything. And that's after I installed the nforce drivers, set them up, and tried all the configs. One thing I hate about GNOME is the seeming lack of a "control center". I can never seem to find anything where I can change the options of the hardware. I'm installing KDE at the moment.

The desktop is great- nice and clean. HAL works well (why can't we change stuff in the HAL daemon? Why does the device manager not manage? It's more like the device log...) It's clean, but it feels like if there should be a problem you can't fix with installing/removing something in synaptic you're screwed...

Nonetheless, internet is working. I've been going into Linux to use the net cause Windows is really sucking recently. Either that or the DSL connection is screwed- though it works in Linux and the router says that all's good.

Oh, and I cahnged something in synaptic and now I get an infinite number of error messages with alsa and amixer. I don't know why. Before I had the happy little drum sound when GDM started up and now I have silence (though audio works fine in GNOME...)

It's a good distro. I'm gonna stick with it for a while (esp cause of the AMD64 and my dislike of Gentoo). I hope I can get it set up the way I want, cause it would make a great desktop mainbox for doing the mundane things normal people do with their computers...

@ +

[hard candy]

Originally posted by Sepero
Something that might be even MORE user friendly is if someone wrote a script or program that automatically installed multimedia support.

One prog that auto installed multimedia, Java, Flash, etc. No configuring at all. Bingo! Now that's user friendly; that's the power of Linux! I would love to see that.

Will not happen, proprietary software involved. Windows and Macs make you download and install all that themselves, and they can afford licenses if they wanted.