FYI: Three-Button Mice for Linux

[DavidMD]

Hello, everyone.

I have a dual-boot system -- Windows XP Professional (SP 2) and SuSE Linux 8.2 Professional (soon to be 9.2 Professional, thanks to a generous family member).

I have been using a blue optical Microsoft mouse for quite some time with both operating systems. I could tell that the left button on the mouse was having problems and about the fall off (which happened with its predecessor and I take good card of my harware), so I knew that, despite my dire financial situation, it was time to replace the mouse.

Given the fact that I am using Linux more and more, and Windows only when I must, I decided to buy a three-button, preferably optical, mouse that is more suited to Linux than to Windows. In addition, I wanted to go with *NIX tradition and get a new mouse with no scroll wheel, which I guess makes me a purist of some sort. (But this information is totally irrelevant, so I will get to the point!)

I spent hours and hours searching the Web for an optical, three-button mouse -- but not a two-button mouse for Windows with a scroll wheel that emulates a middle button when used with Linux. In my searching, I found several queries from people searching for the exact same product, but who also had no success in finding an optical, three-button mouse.

Based upon my Web searches and the retail stores in my area of the United States (the Hermitage community in the eastern part of the metropolitan Nashville, Tennessee, area), I made a list of non-optical, three-button mice that should be compatible with Linux and Windows XP, and I set out today hoping to avoid the delay of ordering a mouse from an on-line merchant.

Computer Renaissance, my first stop, did have one mechanical, three-button mouse with no driver software, and the box indicated that it would work with Windows 3.X and Windows 95/98, but did not provide any information about later versions of Windows. The mouse also has no software for customizing the middle button when one is using it with Windows.

My next stop at Staples yielded no results, so I then went to OfficeMax. I had two choices for a three-button (no scroll wheel) mouse -- a $5.00 (US) mouse made by Labtec (http://www.labtec.com/), which is not listed on Labtec's Web site, and a Belkin (http://snipurl.com/auu3) mouse at the same price (with a choice of USB or PS/2) -- but for which one can download software from Belkin's Web site, to customize the middle button when using the mouse in Windows.

I will not repeat the information about the mouse on Belkin's Web site, which you can read at the SnipURL that I provided in the previous paragraphy. If you just want to look at an image mouse, which is comfortable whether you are left- or right-handed, the URL of the enlarged image is as follows:

> http://images.belkin.com/F8E813-PS2/FUL1_F8E813-PS2.jpg

I hope that this information is of use to someone who might be in the same situation in which I found myself, and wants the same type of mouse to use with Linux.

I do add the disclaimer that I have no affiliation with Belkin, nor do I stand to gain economically by telling my fellow JustLinux.com forum members about a mouse that retails for about $5.00 (roughly half of the MSRP).

When I registered the mouse on Belkin's Web site, by the way, I also told them about the demand by several people in the Linux community for an optical, three-button mouse, which, of course, is not a requirement and may be of no interest to most Linux users.

I hope that Belkin realizes, however, the profit potential of creating such a mouse. (I have gotten "spoiled" by optical mice, ever since I first started using one on a Mac SE/30 back in 1991!)

Thanks!

Cordially,

David M. Dickerson

[infiniphunk]

Sorry if I'm missing something huge here, but why the great need for a 3-button mouse? I get by very well with a 2-button and wheel USB optical mouse by logitech.

[Disk Monkey]

Yeah, and why so anti-scrollwheel? A scrollwheel can be very simply be used as a third button in Linux, and if you are using Linux, chances are you're used to doing things the hard way in any event... What makes the third button all that special, anyhow? I only really use it in FireFox. You can make your scroll-wheel work in Linux...so why not get the advantages of a third button *AND* a scrollwheel? I happen to like scrolling in Windows or Linux.

P.S. My optical mouse has 4 buttons and a scrollwheel, so maybe I'm just spoiled, who knows.

[Icarus]

A three button mouse...without....scroll..wheel

[DavidMD]

Hello, 'infiniphunk'!

Thank you for your response.

Originally posted by infiniphunk
Sorry if I'm missing something huge here, but why the great need for a 3-button mouse? I get by very well with a 2-button and wheel USB optical mouse by logitech.

You are certainly not missing anything "huge," 'infiniphunk'. The matter is quite minor and a matter of personal preference.

My guess is that most Linux users, particularly if they have used, or are using, Windows, are using two-botton mice with Linux, with the scroll wheel emulating the middle button.

To the best of my knowledge, Sun Microsystems still includes, as standard, the Sun three-button mouse, along with a Sun keyboard, when they sell a Solaris workstation.

We are, of course, discussing the wonderful open-source Linux OS in JustLinux.com's forums, and not Sun's proprietery UNIX platform.

If you check the Linux list ('linux-list') discussion archives on the SSC Publishing (publisher of Linux Journal) Web site, you will find a thread, "[SLL] supported three-button mouse hard to find," which is one bit of evidence I found of an interest among certain Linux users, at least, in optical, three-button mice for Linux (mice that do not have "Windows" scroll wheels).

Two relevant URLs from this archived discussion are as follows:

- http://lists.ssc.com/pipermail/linux...il/004575.html
- http://lists.ssc.com/pipermail/linux...il/004576.html

By the way, the 'linux-list' archives are available at the following URL:

- http://lists.ssc.com/pipermail/linux-list/

(Of course, JustLinux.com continues to serve me very well, indeed!)

You can get more information about these Linux discussions at this URL:

- http://lists.ssc.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-list

This archived discussion, and similar ones that I found, hardly constitute a major problem for Linux users, or a "problem" at all, IMHO.

Until today, I have used my blue, optical Microsoft mouse throught the slightly over two years that I have been using Linux, without the "need" for the type of mouse that I bought today (and at a fraction of the cost of my blue Microsoft optical mouse).

I simply wanted to provide information for the members of JustLinux.com, 'infiniphunk' -- information that I thought would be of interest.

I certainly had no desire to, or intention of, confusing anyone, and I apologize again for any confusion that my posting may have caused, 'infiniphunk'.

Thanks!

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- Now that I have switched mice, I assume that I will have to do some editing in '/dev/mouse/' to set up my new three-button mouse (without a scroll wheel) to function properly in SuSE Linux Professional -- or I could wait until I upgrade from 8.2 to 9.2, and configure the mouse at installation time.

If anyone has any suggestions, I would be grateful; otherwise, I will research the issue on-line and via my personal library of books about Linux. (Obviously, I remain a Linux "newbie"/neophyte!)

[DavidMD]

Hello, 'Disk Monkey' and 'Icarus'.

Thank you for your messages. I apologize again for confusing, when I sincerely meant to provide what I hoped was some useful information.

I am certainly not "anti-scroll wheel," Disk Monkey, and I was not trying to start a controversy, or cause any discord among members of JustLinux.com, who happen to come across the information that I shared.

In a nutshell, if you are interested in a three-button mouse, in the "traditional" *NIX meaning of the term, there is apparently no optical one available, except for the three-button mice that use the scroll wheel to emulate the middle button.

I find a mouse with a scroll wheel to be very convenient. In fact, when I got my first PC in 1998, I was, to be candid, absolutely thrilled to have two buttons and a scroll wheel on my mouse! (Of course, in order to take advantage of that great new Logitech mouse, I had to live with Windows NT 4, which was my operating system!)

Background: Before I bought my first two computers -- a Commodore 94, in 1984, and Macintosh SE, in 1989, which I had upgraded to a Mac SE/30 in 1991 -- I had used CP/M, DOS, AMOS (Alpha Micro Operating System, which was kind of like DOS trying to imitate UNIX), UNIX, various versions of the Mac OS, IBM mainframe operating systems, and Windows.

Most of those operating systems used only the keyboard for input. Apple, even today, supplies only one button with its mice, and has always done so; during a certain period of my life, I spent more hours using the Mac than any other OS.

When I first started using PCs and saw all that I accomplish by "right-clcking" and using a scroll wheel, I realized that Apple was making a mistake trying to "protect" Mac users with such a simple mouse. Fortunately, third-parties came to the rescue. (Aside: While searching for a three-button mouse on the Web, I found a Google ad for a Windows mouse with no buttons or scroll wheel; it was described as being for "that friend or colleage who always makes stupid mistakes with the mouse while using Windows." I believe that Linux is a better solution than "the brick mouse.")

Therefore, Disk Monkey and Icarus, in posting my information about the type of three-button mouse that is currently available, I certainly was not indicating any hostility toward scroll wheels. I was merely reporting the information that I found, in case anyone else is searching for an optical, three-button mouse. I truly was not trying to advocate, or oppose, any form of input that helps people accomplish more with Linux, or to enjoy using our favorite OS even more!

The misunderstanding that I caused in this thread, and the evidence I have found that apparently quite a few people seem to be wanting three-button, optical mice without scroll wheels (for whatever reason), has caused me to want to learn more about the history of the three-button mouse in the Linux/UNIX world.

I do not have any desire to read some 500-page tome on The History of the Computer Mouse (if such a work exists), but I am rather curious about the evolution of the three-button mouse in the history of a multi-user operating system that started out relying on the command-line as the sole mode of interaction.

Thank you for your patience and understanding!

Cordially,

David Dickerson

P.S. -- I close this message with a couple of URLs from 'Wikipedia' (the free encyclopedia on the Web).

> Computer Mouse
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_mouse

You can view an image of the first computer mouse at <http://snipurl.com/av03>. Because the image is copyrighted, I cannot embed it in this message.

Without meaning any disrespect to the incredible contributions of Douglas Carl Engelbart's work in interactive computing, I will admit that some images about the evolution of the computer mouse at the Bootstrap Institute do bring a smile to my face, <http://snipurl.com/av06>.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

> X Window System (X11 or X)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X11

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

"As much as possible, to boost mankind's
collective capability for coping with
complex, urgent problems...."

[Disk Monkey]

Originally posted by DavidMD
Hello, 'Disk Monkey' and 'Icarus'.

I am certainly not "anti-scroll wheel," Disk Monkey, and I was not trying to start a controversy, or cause any discord among members of JustLinux.com, who happen to come across the information that I shared.

Fooled me. :P

I find a mouse with a scroll wheel to be very convenient. In fact, when I got my first PC in 1998, I was, to be candid, absolutely thrilled to have two buttons and a scroll wheel on my mouse! (Of course, in order to take advantage of that great new Logitech mouse, I had to live with Windows NT 4, which was my operating system!)

You got your first PC in 1998?

Background: Before I bought my first two computers -- a Commodore 94, in 1984, and Macintosh SE, in 1989, which I had upgraded to a Mac SE/30 in 1991 -- I had used CP/M, DOS, AMOS (Alpha Micro Operating System, which was kind of like DOS trying to imitate UNIX), UNIX, various versions of the Mac OS, IBM mainframe operating systems, and Windows.

Wait, I thought you said you got your first in 1998? By PC you must mean "Windows computer." That's really a misnomer.

Most of those operating systems used only the keyboard for input. Apple, even today, supplies only one button with its mice, and has always done so; during a certain period of my life, I spent more hours using the Mac than any other OS.

When I first started using PCs and saw all that I accomplish by "right-clcking" and using a scroll wheel, I realized that Apple was making a mistake trying to "protect" Mac users with such a simple mouse. Fortunately, third-parties came to the rescue. (Aside: While searching for a three-button mouse on the Web, I found a Google ad for a Windows mouse with no buttons or scroll wheel; it was described as being for "that friend or colleage who always makes stupid mistakes with the mouse while using Windows." I believe that Linux is a better solution than "the brick mouse.")

Apple has, and always will scare me.

I do not have any desire to read some 500-page tome on The History of the Computer Mouse (if such a work exists), but I am rather curious about the evolution of the three-button mouse in the history of a multi-user operating system that started out relying on the command-line as the sole mode of interaction.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelll, it all really started back in the 70s at PARC where the first "ball-mouse"...

Thank you for your patience and understanding!

You're a very polite fellow, were this distributed in some half-baked-os-biggotry-scheme I never would have taken it seriously, but now you've got me pondering where, indeed, a tri-button mouse fits into computing history...I shall have to research this.
In any event, what, pray tell, do the benefits of a third mouse button really have? And most of the old 486/P1 boxes I've seen have tri-button mice, and they have only ever been used with Windows. So obviously there is more to it than just Linux.

[Parcival]

I have been using an optical M$ Intellipoint Explorer mouse with two buttons and a scrollwheel for the last couple of years and always thought it to be a really handy kind of mouse (except it's from Microsoft, but hey, it's still from my time before my soul got saved ).

Anyway, as I have been using my laptop computer lately a lot again I have packed this mouse into my laptop case and got too lazy to unpack it and plug it back into my desktop. Instead I plugged an old Logitech Mouseman three-button mouse into my PS/2 port and hardly noticed any difference while working to my surprise.

Explanation: I have mostly used the scrollwheel to browse webpages, but since mrBen suggested using the Home and End keys to scroll a webpage waaaay faster I've been increasingly using this method.

[Icarus]

It is a personal preferance thing, I use the scroll wheel more then any other 'button' on my mice. Scroll through web pages, terminals to read long output, change virtual desktops and change weapons in UT
Also the last few mice I've had put the 'third button' with the scroll wheel, while very much miss having that button on the side by the thumb...MY lastest is an optical 7 button scroll wheel and I've mapped the side buttons to the middle also, so I feel better about that

I have nothing against others wanting to use a mouse without a scroll, but I know I wouldn't last long without it

To each their own. And thanks for all the good info you posted here, we might want to move this to the "How I did it" forum since it is that usefull

[pickarooney]

Lower RSI-risk with a tailored middle button than with a wheel-as-button, I reckon.

[Parcival]

Originally posted by Icarus
MY lastest is an optical 7 button scroll wheel

What are you doing with this bad boy? Fire all weapons at once?

[Icarus]

Originally posted by Parcival
What are you doing with this bad boy? Fire all weapons at once?

Heh, that would be sweet
It was $10, I couldn't argue over that
Paint has worn off in some places though, looks like I've had the thing for 10 years!
The left button is mapped to the 3rd button and the right is mapped to the 2nd, nothing fancy

[sharth]

my university (UDel) has a pile of sun x-term labs with the three button mice. Honestly, they really aren't any better than the scroll mice.

But hey, if you want one, why not. Go for the look

[Rinias]

Hey, what's the big deal with wanting a "Linux" mouse? I mean, just because it's a bastard OS (which is a good and bad thing), doesn't mean we can't want to make it whole...

I'll pick up a three button mouse with no scroll once I get Linux only hardware! In fact, I really wish I could go out to the store and buy the latest Linux box which comes with like 3,000,000 programs that we only pay like five bucks for... That'd be awesome!!

[Dude] Yo man, check out my new Xinix processor! This things beats the crap outta the P8 and the AMD +400000!!

[Man] Geez! You're totally getting like 1000 fps on Quake 43!!

[/end stupidity]

[Disk Monkey]

Yeah, those P8s. What a weak frontend. The local used store sells PCs (older ones...P3 and before or equivalent AMD/Cyrix) that come w/ Fedora Core pre-installed. And Wal-Mart had that Lindows thing...which I've never used, but the website for it was stupid and so was getting into the beta so I just stopped caring. I have no idea if that's still happening, I doubt it, I can't picture myriad wal-mart shoppers dropping everything in their busy days full of idiocy and complancey to buy a PC w/ a Linux-Windows hybird pre-installed. Just not gonna happen. Maybe at Fry's.