Main "Hating Microsoft in a nutshell" thread

[MB[DK]]

Image a Linux based car. One thats so difficult to operate, that you would rather walk. There's a solution for globalwarming. Open Source cars, never drive anywhere with it.

[JThundley]

Or with the Linux based car, you would buy TONS of gas because you would never want to turn off your engine to preserve your uptime

[jsundquist]

Originally posted by blobaugh
Hey I'm liking the remote control car idea. I mean it's Microsoft right? So of course they're going to put wireless in it so they can keep track of you, and constantly remind you to buy their newest update. Why not also Include software to control the car if you it's stolen. Then we'd really have mass chaos from the crackers.

Ever heard of onStar?

[deanrantala]

Well... I got to play with Longhorn a couple days ago.

To be honest - damn. It is actually kinda nice. And this is comming from a Slackware lover...

OK, first lemme update you on a couple things..

Bloaty.. You thought XP wass full of sh!t? You should see this one.. Explorer alone eats some 40 - 60 megs RAM idle. Minimum specs call for 800 mhz, 256 megs ram (512 recomended) and at least a 32 meg vid card. But it is not bad - the UI is actually nice - KDE take note! As heavy as it is, it is still a very usable and nice GUI to work in. For Linux devs, let this be a lesson: PC's are becoming cheaper and more powerfull, lets forget the stuff like TWM and Flux and start doing something more like this - KDE is in the right directon, but can use a little polishing. Speed is no longer a concern, we need something *nice* to compete with the upcomming competiton.

New File system. Err.. well, not really a FS - it is actually a relational database for a FS. Dubbed "WinFS" it is also eats a reasonable amount or RAM and CPU cycles. But as usual, this big resource load pays off in features and speed at wich files can be located on mindlessly large drives with millions of files - something Linux will need to face soon as well. It basically doen not arange stuff in a directory tree like you are used to - instead, everyhting is in a suedo- relational database that is integrated seamlessly with explorer. Meaning - you can have a 400 gig HD full of mp3's and movies, do a search for a single song or mp3, and find it in less than a second since it does nopt need to search a directory tree, but merely look in the database for the files atributes. Linux will need this to move into the future of massive file storage.

New internet exploder..err.. Explorer . OK, but this one is actually getting better for the first time in..err... since ever. Built in pop up blocking, tabbed browsing, and a download maneger are new features in the IE version that comes with it - wich are practically standard features on all other browsers nowadays.. A lot of odds and ends have also been battened down to secure it a little more - lets not forget, however - this IS still windows, so that does not always mean a lot.

I will post some screenies up soon - hopefully by monday. Even though this is a Linux forum and I am a Linux geek, this new Longhorn OS has some interesting technologies nonetheless that need to be considered for our own growth as well and I have decided that others might also be interested in some of this. Lets be mature about this: just because this is Microsoft does not mean that the IDEAS and TECHNOLOGIES behind the new OS are bad as well. We really need to look at this and see not only what we are up against is a couple more years, but also what direction we should be moving today.

Comments welcome

[nextbillgates]

New File system. Err.. well, not really a FS - it is actually a relational database for a FS. Dubbed "WinFS" it is also eats a reasonable amount or RAM and CPU cycles. But as usual, this big resource load pays off in features and speed at wich files can be located on mindlessly large drives with millions of files - something Linux will need to face soon as well. It basically doen not arange stuff in a directory tree like you are used to - instead, everyhting is in a suedo- relational database that is integrated seamlessly with explorer. Meaning - you can have a 400 gig HD full of mp3's and movies, do a search for a single song or mp3, and find it in less than a second since it does nopt need to search a directory tree, but merely look in the database for the files atributes. Linux will need this to move into the future of massive file storage.

/usr/bin/locate

[psi42]

Originally posted by nextbillgates
/usr/bin/locate

Yeah, and locate doesn't eat "a reasonable amount or RAM and CPU cycles"

PC's are becoming cheaper and more powerfull, lets forget the stuff like TWM and Flux and start doing something more like this - KDE is in the right directon, but can use a little polishing. Speed is no longer a concern, we need something *nice* to compete with the upcomming competiton.

That's true only if you concentrate on everyone having a brand new system. But a lot of people have some brand old systems that thrive on IceWM and *box. Don't take me wrong here, I use KDE with all the eyecandy and stuff on my fast system, and don't plan on switching to something lighter--the machine can handle it. But there is still a great deal of use that can be gotten out of machines that can't handle KDE.

The $20 pentium 2 is still out there, and is really really cheap. IceWM and Abiword and Firebird and Slackware and you've got yourself a pretty decent workstation. Let's see how longhorn runs on that. Win98 certainly didn't do very well.
But of course that all works to M$'s advantage.....They'd really love you to buy a new PC pre-loaded with OEM Recommended Micro$oft Windoze LongHorn 4000 That Actually Supports /usr/bin/locate With Extra CPU Usage.

[hard candy]

Anything about the built-in security? Is the firewall present from boot up? Does it have WM player and is it limited to signed (i.e, legal) files? Can you find anything about the "Secure Computing" stuff?

[deanrantala]

Originally posted by hard candy
Anything about the built-in security? Is the firewall present from boot up? Does it have WM player and is it limited to signed (i.e, legal) files? Can you find anything about the "Secure Computing" stuff?

Originally posted by hard candy
Anything about the built-in security? Is the firewall present from boot up? Does it have WM player and is it limited to signed (i.e, legal) files? Can you find anything about the "Secure Computing" stuff?

Well, the build I was playing with was playing unsigned music rather fine And yes, they activate a firewall by default now. the firewall now not only blocks incoming traffic, but monitors outgoing traffic as well and is planned to be updated regulary to be notified of known virus behavior. They are also planning on integrating antivirus into it by the release version.

This copy also is DMR free.. for now

Actually, locate is just for finding a particular file.. The WinFS technology - wich is actually an old idea ( BeFS and OS/2 both use suedo-database file systems) extends beyond just being able to find a simple file. All files stored on the system have uniuqe meta data embeded that can be used to cross reference them to other files or applications. It also allows you, for instance, to say - create a custom playlist on all of your Led Zepplinwith one quick click - but actually, you do not even need to create a playlist - just tell the application to play all of the led zepplin on your hard drive. Thats all the application needs to know, it does not see folders and subfolders, just a relational database pointing to all the Led Zepplin stuff.. It also lets you worry mo more about where stuff is downloaded to or where all your docements are kept - it is no longer WHERE your data is, but WHAT it is. When you DL something, you have the option to DL it to a certion spot - like the desktop for instance. But location is just a graphical representation of where it is, if you sent it somewhere you can't remember, just tell [explorer] to show you the file you downloaded 5 minutes ago - or the last IE download for instance. The flexability is very nice IMO.

And as said, this is a technology OS - probably winn not debut until 2006 - by that time, a Pentium at 800 mhz will be far more common that you think. And of coarse, not everyone will be upgrading to Longhorn - just as millions worldwide still use Windows 98 and ME. So nicer technologie does not actually mean everyone will use it

[voidinit]

From the sounds of it WinFS and slocate are two means to accomplish the same end. While WinFS can find all Led Zepplin files using metadata generated from ID3 Tags and such, linux can use locate | grep Zepplin to do the same thing. Provided the user managed to name thier files responsibly.

The only major difference is tha WinFS seems to be able to handle the addition of new data in on-the-fly as apposed with to using updatedb.

[nugget15]

I dont like MS because well mostly because there are many many other reasons why, but this is what pushed me to linux (witch is soooooo much better) I finished typing up my report, I didnt save because for about a month xp hadent crashed on me so i thought i was good. It crashed as i tried to save. I rebooted went to were i saved it and there was nothing there. It was a 5 page report for skool due the next day and it was almost time for me to go to sleep it was like 10 something. I took all my notes i had from online, finnaly searched through coppied and pasted and got the 5 page report backtogheter and saved. Then at skool when i went to print they use win98 and while i went to open the report off the floppy it crashed 2 times. I finnaly got fed up with it I swiched to linux at home then my lil bro did something and messed up the computer that my linux os was on cuz he messed around with some of the regestries and bios, so now im here on my dads puter with his Win XP waiting till after x-mas so i can build my puter and dedicate it to linux and no one will touch it ever ever again. Only me If my bro gets on it he will not be allowed to mess with the config, bios or anything. He will not d/l anything (he can go through a 10 gig hdd in about 3-5 days)

[deanrantala]

Originally posted by voidinit
From the sounds of it WinFS and slocate are two means to accomplish the same end. While WinFS can find all Led Zepplin files using metadata generated from ID3 Tags and such, linux can use locate | grep Zepplin to do the same thing. Provided the user managed to name thier files responsibly.

The only major difference is tha WinFS seems to be able to handle the addition of new data in on-the-fly as apposed with to using updatedb.

Well, yes and no.. WinFS uses it's own database - avalon. It access stuff like a MP3 NOT based on it's ID3 tag (it could care less about it's ID3 tag) but on a special meta tag that it assignes every file on the FS. It is a unified tagging system that works hand in hand with the integrated DB. the whole point is: winFS NEVER ACTUALLY NEEDS TO LOOK for it - it just knows where it all is. And since the file system is a relational database - it has capabilities for cross refrencing on-the-fly that other FS's don't have. Whats more, say for instance you have .ogg, .wav, and .mp3 songs all by the same artist all over the HD. WinFS would care less WHERE those files are - it only knows that according to the DB, there are such and such a files for "Led Zepplin" under the "Music" listing. Same goes for documents. When you save a spreadsheet for instance.. Now a day later you want to see all your business realted spreadsheets you have done in the past year - it simply looks at the database "Last year" -> "Spreadsheet file types" -> "Bussiness related" and presto. It never actually needs to search a directory tree or update anything because everything IS the database..

[jsundquist]

Sweet I killed another thread.

[Sepero]

Sweet I killed jsundquist.

[jsundquist]

[voidinit]

Originally posted by deanrantala
Well, yes and no.. WinFS uses it's own database - avalon. It access stuff like a MP3 NOT based on it's ID3 tag (it could care less about it's ID3 tag) but on a special meta tag that it assignes every file on the FS. It is a unified tagging system that works hand in hand with the integrated DB. the whole point is: winFS NEVER ACTUALLY NEEDS TO LOOK for it - it just knows where it all is. And since the file system is a relational database - it has capabilities for cross refrencing on-the-fly that other FS's don't have. Whats more, say for instance you have .ogg, .wav, and .mp3 songs all by the same artist all over the HD. WinFS would care less WHERE those files are - it only knows that according to the DB, there are such and such a files for "Led Zepplin" under the "Music" listing. Same goes for documents. When you save a spreadsheet for instance.. Now a day later you want to see all your business realted spreadsheets you have done in the past year - it simply looks at the database "Last year" -> "Spreadsheet file types" -> "Bussiness related" and presto. It never actually needs to search a directory tree or update anything because everything IS the database..

I think you completely missed the point of my post. You need to abstract what is being done from how it is being done. I could care less where the tags that describe the files come from, or weather a directory tree has to be searched. The fact is, the user needs to find files based on certain attributes, both WinFS and slocate accomplish this task. WinFS has nicer features and a higher degree of automation. How these individual methods accomplish thier tasks is relevant because they both work, and they work fast.

As to your statement about WInFS never needing to look for something, that is just proposterous! If something is found, something else damn sure had to look for it! Wether a database index is queried, or a data table is quried or a directory tree is searched, there is some searching going on.