Main "Hating Microsoft in a nutshell" thread - Page 23


View Poll Results: Do you think making Linux and MS interactable (kinda) a good idea?

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  • Yes, this is a great idea

    3 27.27%
  • Yes, it's an ok idea

    1 9.09%
  • It wouldn't hurt

    3 27.27%
  • No, Linux should stick to Linux and Microsoft should stick to Microsoft

    4 36.36%
  • Or just use CrossOver Office

    0 0%
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Thread: Main "Hating Microsoft in a nutshell" thread

  1. #331
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    the whole point is: winFS NEVER ACTUALLY NEEDS TO LOOK for it - it just knows where it all is.
    How cool would it be if someone did some hacking so that whenever a file is added or deleted from your filesystem, it was also updated in the updatedb database. (Try saying that 5 times fast). It would be kind of the same effect. It would be nice to never do updatedb or worry about when the database was updated.

  2. #332
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    dude... your an idiot... to do that u would have to have perminate access to the files in the database and would get busted so fast it wouldnt be funny because u would perminately be leaving your computer connected to the server... think about it dude...
    Registered Linux User: #342515

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  3. #333
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    To peminate, or perminate...that is the question

    Originally posted by GlennaclawZ
    dude... your an idiot... to do that u would have to have perminate access to the files in the database and would get busted so fast it wouldnt be funny because u would perminately be leaving your computer connected to the server... think about it dude...
    I'm thinking about it...
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  4. #334
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    Originally posted by GlennaclawZ
    dude... your an idiot... to do that u would have to have perminate access to the files in the database and would get busted so fast it wouldnt be funny because u would perminately be leaving your computer connected to the server... think about it dude...
    What server? What permanent access? What files are in your database?

    slocate is a database local to your box and it simply stores paths. There is no client server connection or anything like that. However, I think it would be somewhat difficult for slocate to be dynamically updated.

    It could be done at the appliction level where program a, say "cp" writes to the slocate database after it copies a file to update the locations of the file. The simpler option would be to have the kernel update slocate when a file is created, moved, copied, or whatever when the kernel calls the filesystem handler to perform the requested operation.

    I don't think it's impossible at all, but I'm sure it would be hard.
    "There's a big difference between "copy" and "use". It's exatcly the same
    issue whether it's music or code. You can't re-distribute other peoples
    music (becuase it's _their_ copyright), but they shouldn't put limits on
    how you personally _use_ it (because it's _your_ life)."

    --Linus Torvalds

  5. #335
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    microsoft buys evil from satan


  6. #336
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    This gets out of hand sometime....

    And people wonder what is wrong.

    Everyone is always so busy poking fun at Microsoft. Microsoft is evil, Microsoft this, Microsoft that. It is NOT MICROSOFT, but the ideas and practices of a select few within the company. People, lets be a little more mature here. Microsoft brought the PC to the masses because of a product. Nothing evil with that, in fact it was a movement that bettered society. Microsoft improved that product, and it was not bad. Sure, there are viruses, and the price is high, but would you find your Local PC dealer selling anything else that was that easy to use at the time - much less GIVING AWAY FOR FREE anything that easy to sue? No. Hell, they even tried their hardest to make DOS easy dammit. Is that wrong? No. Now a few people in the upper ranks within that company pulled some real slimy moves, that was wrong. But that does not mean that the real programmers who actually bust @ss on the developement do not work hard to make something nice. Remember, developement is development, wether it be via CVS or behind closed doors, they are all working hard. A team of programmers who are damn good at what they do, employed by microsoft - they are told "this is what it needs to genrally look like and this is what it needs to be able to run - go do it" and they do it. Viruses and security is not THEIR fault - it is a flaw in the general design of windows itself, wich the devs have no control over, so they do their best to build what they can. Stop and think for a minute... if it was not for the Viruses and security issues of Windows, what would be so bad about it? Lets exclude Digital rights management for a minute - since it is still not a full blown implementation. What would be so bad about it? It runs quick, looks decent, easy to use, and gets the job done.

    Is it the price? Now lets think for a minute.. SuSE. They charge 40 bucks for a box set. Why do I not hear everyone here bashing them for charging? Sure, you could argue that it is because you are getting tons more software for your buck, but then again, nerly everyhitng in that box set is other peoples software - All SuSE has done is add some daemons and GUI tools, make it look nice and stick it in a box. Windows has built their OS from the ground up - sure they liscense some bits and peices of code here and their, but everyone has done that. Besides, call Redhat and see how quickly you get through to an actuall live person for help or support.

    I LOVE Linux, and use it almost exclusively. I have one box here at home with XP/ Longhorn (dual Boot) but I NEED that - I am a repair tech and when you work with Windows boxes for a living, you will find that very, VERY often you need a win box for a reason or two. I realise that Linux is generally a lot more safer and stable for many applications, and it can be very cost effective, but I am not so close minded to put Windows down because of a group of numbheads within Microsoft who are not always looking out for the best intentions of others.

    And besides, Windows keeps me with work - if there were not millions of Windows boxes to fix around the world, thousands of people like me (who am myself a avid Slacker) would be out of work.

  7. #337
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    lol, people are always lumping nazis together too - perhaps it wasn't the nazi party that was at fault, but the ideas and practices of a select few within the party. if you are on the M$ payroll, you are contributing to the problem. janitors included.

    dean - i work in tech support, and what microsoft does over the phone is neither tech nor support. for the price you pay for a prepackaged OS, you should be able to get decent support for FREE (not the prices they charge). they have a lot of people by the balls, and that is the idea.

    i have dealt with individuals on a few tiers of that company, and i can say this: they don't care about you after the software is paid for. period. it doesn't matter who is defining the mission statements over there, everyone who implementing them is at fault.
    Your distro is not better/worse than anyone else's. Unite!

    RH9user | JL > DebianUser

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    Debian - Save yourself the hassle.

  8. #338
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    No, what you get from MS is not really tech support. But it is a lot more than what you get from RH. And it IS free. And last I checked, you PAID for updates for RH. I understand that there are hundreds of other distros and that most others are free to update, but no one ever pegs RH for what they do. What about the life cycle they put on RH 9? It will be less than half of the supported life cycle that WinME and 2000 will have. And what about their updating ideas? "The Redhat network". Let me tell you a story about the "Red hat network". I bought *3* subscriptions for 2 customers and myself. They got the cash from my credit card, but I never got the access to the network. I called.. 3 hours and NO one to even take my call.. Emailed them... Finally got a response. They daid they "fixed" the problem. Still could not get access. Emailed them again... This time they said they could not "locate my account" - but yet I was getting "Red har errata update info" emailed to me every day. That was a year ago. They still got the cash and I still have never seen my RHN access. I tried calling a second time, was told rudely that I should just open a new account because they had no record and could not help me. That was after being on hold for an hour and a half.

    I am sure you have called Microsoft to reactivate a customers PC before.. lets see... 10 minutes tops and you are on the phone with a polite person who promptly gives you a new activation ID. I have also called for various other reasons and it is almost always the same: reasonably fast response with freindly people who are willing to help with accounts/ activation/ or special product info.

    And as you most likely know, automated updates are actually free.

    Sure, there are lots of other distros that solve this issue, but why does no one ever bash RH like they do MS? They are just as bad. But you know why no one here ever bashes RH like that? Because it is Linux. No other reason. RH is Linux and so no one wants to bash it. Hell, if Windows was a linux distro, I bet no one would bash it either.. No, just because they see "Microsoft" in it, they automatically stereotype it as bad. I do not like they way "Microsoft" doess stuff either, but their developers make some damn good software (can you say Office?) Hell, I use Office even on my Linux boxen, it is a damn good office suite.

    And Longhorn.. damn.. It really pains me to say it, but the Alpha version (build 4051) I have been using is some smooth stuff. It does not get any nicer when it comes down to an OS that is just *nice* to use. I really hope the Linux community can come out with somehting spectacular by '06 because Longhorn speaks to the masses and fast computers. People fail to see that in the business of computing for the masses (i.e. "home users"), who makes the most reliable and flexible OS does not mean anyhting. I have sold many Linux boxes to customers here in town, but I am comparing it to WinXP.. SuSE is rather stand up compared to XP. But it is hard enough to explain how their old software is not campatable. I try to push Linux, not everyone does, and most just dopn't care. Compare Longhorn to any Linux distro with KDE or Gnome.. It is a joke when you look at it in abstract. We need to stop HATING Microsoft and LEARN a few things from them. That is why Linux has not made it to the full blown desktop use yet. Everyone is too busy behind their P4's at 3.01 Ghz running Debian with Fluxbox that they fail to see the advances technology is making and the new software that is being created to take full advantage of that hardware. Your neighbor, the guy at the checkout in the gas station down the street, and the guy who works the pawn shop in town. They could _care_less_ if you can open 6 virtual terminals, or how fast Fluxbox runs.. We are geeks, they are not. They got 3 Ghz to play with, and something bloaty and bulky means nothing to them, so long as it is easy and works.

    Microsoft analizes the market, what the trends are, what people want, what people say about their OS, and they act upon it. And they listen to the masses, not a group of geeks that are hardcore bash junkies (as I am). They want to sell an OS to the masses, so they create an OS that the masses want - now isn't this a new concept in the Linux realm? It is not totally foriegn, but is rarely adheared to. Why? Because it is a "microsoft idea" and is therefore a bad idea I guesse.

    You do not expect to sell a pair of headphones to a mute. You sell stuff to people who want it and can use it. you can't sell something to someone unless they will buy it and want to use it.

    But since we are so busy hating Microsoft in a nutshell, we don't pay attention to this rather successfull trend and concept. No one wants to learn because the they just don't like their teacher. Hell, I hated all my teachers in school. But I did not say that that made education evil.

  9. #339
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    Originally posted by deanrantala
    ...why does no one ever bash RH like they do MS? They are just as bad. But you know why no one here ever bashes RH like that? Because it is Linux. No other reason.
    Close, but no cigar. Though, it's true that RH actually does somethings WORSE than MS. Why RH is not bashed is because, they actually contribute something to the OSS community. They don't go around bashing the GNU and OSS licenses. And if you have problems with them, you can go to SUSE or Mandrake, AND you'll still have all the support for hardware devices that you had before. You have OPTIONS.

    If you can switch from factory built XP box to any other OS without any hardware obstacles, then you're a lucky MoFo. People are getting tired of hardware and software lock-in $h!t.

    Today MS is trying to re-write open standards(XML), and they're trying to take control of your bank accounts and personal information(.NET). Do you trust them? And what's in store for tommorrow? (Controlling your water and electric?? Your household appliances??)

    Is all of this worth it for a pretty desktop? No. Do we need to improve our DeskEnviro's to attract less-geeky users and compete with MS? Yes, I think we do.


    P.S.
    My father decided to get my little sister her first computer this christmas. I conviced him to get it preinstalled with SUSE. The youth of today are the dicision makers of tomorrow. Get them started on the right path and you might suprised at just how far they go.

  10. #340
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    For the record, my Little sister (12 years old) has Used SuSE for a year now and recently installed the nVidia drivers herself.

    So you are very correct, Linux does not have to mean "hard".

    .NET: Has some good concepts, but as you say, a lot of bad intentions behind it. Nonetheless, some of the intergration and features would not be bad if aproached with good intentions. It could be used as MS wants to, but on the other hand, it is a technology that exists and can be good in theory as far as ease of use goes.

    "Guns can be used for killing people or hunting for food"

    There are people who make the guns, people who sell them, people who use them, and people who service them. Just because the ones who market them are idiots, that does not mean it is a bad gun. If a group of criminals use a bunch of those guns for a crime, it does not make it a bad gun. It is the same concept. Would you say that the Smith-Wesson janitors are evil or bad people because your neighbor shot a school up with one? Or even if the CEO went and sold a case of them to a minor? No, sosciety needs to start learning to take responsibilty and getting to the root of problems. So be the same situation with Microsoft.

    Aside from security, the problem I see 99.999% of everyone have with windows is political, NOT materialistic.

  11. #341
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    The basic take on the subject should be value.

    At home I have an iptables firewall, Dynamically updated DNS server, and a DHCP server all running a little pentium 75, 32MB RAM, and a 840MB HDD. The little system handles three seperate, but important mundane network services. It does it's job beautifully and I don't care if it's ugly or un-slick. Neither do business for that matter. Hell, they used MSDOS forever. Why should something only the network admin logs into be pretty?

    Let's look at this a bit more closely. In terms of total cost.

    Slackware:

    Hardware: $15.00 (Garage Sale)
    Software: $0
    Time: $750 (This was figured by mulitplying my billable rate by the total time taken from OS install to 2.6.0 upgrade to finished product, including time to learn how to set everything up. 10 hrs * $75/hr)
    Maintenence $0 (all backups, etc. are automated)
    Support Cost: $0 (I found everything I needed to know on the internet).

    Total $750

    That's a complete Firewall with port forwarding and nat and all that, a complete DHCP server that updates DNS, and a complete name resolver package. All of this for $750. Judging by CPU utilization this little box could handle a normal small/home business sized network (10-15 clients). Currently it runs 5 clients.

    Try that with Win2k server or Windows Server 2003. The hardware would be much more expensive just to meet the minimum system requirements of the OS. The OS would be much more expensive, plus client licesnes. A software suite for backups would also need to be purchased. On top of all that, it is still going to require my time to set it up.


    Windows 2003 Server:

    Hardware Cost: $350 (Low End PC from Dell, meets recommended system requirements)
    Software Cost: $600 (With 5 client licenses)
    $250 (Guess for viable backup suite)
    Labor: $375 (Windows setup will save me some time)
    Support Costs $0 (We don't know it's going to break.

    Total: $1575

    Sooner or later business are going to figure this out as well. Some already have, and the more popularity Linux gains in the business world, the more this knowledge is going to go mainstream. I'm not talking about linux on the desktop or office packages for linux. I'm talking about network services like web servers, DNS servers, email servers, SQL servers, etc.

    Granted I would never place either of these pieces of hardware in a business production environment. It is old and there is no redundancy. However I would use a used PowerEdge or similar. I can even go to a used low-end Compaq Proliant server to run linux, but not Windows Server 2003.
    "There's a big difference between "copy" and "use". It's exatcly the same
    issue whether it's music or code. You can't re-distribute other peoples
    music (becuase it's _their_ copyright), but they shouldn't put limits on
    how you personally _use_ it (because it's _your_ life)."

    --Linus Torvalds

  12. #342
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    To deanrantala:

    The comparison between gun makers and MS is a poor one:

    -It's likely that most of the best cyber criminals don't even use MS. The odds are that they use a *n*x type system.
    -Gun Manufacturers don't stop you from reselling your purchase to your friends.
    -Gun Manufacturers aren't trying to control how you can use your gun. (MS rights management etc.)
    -Gun Manufacturers aren't trying to limit your options on what accessories you can buy. (Constant changing of formats in Office and other software)
    -And MOST importantly. No Gun Manufacturers have a vitual monopoly.


    A better comparison to MS would probably be The Matrix:

    -The Matrix has a very nice atmosphere. (similar to your MS desktop)
    -If you leave The Matrix, you may be eating gruel for awhile.
    -The Matrix is a Very well integrated system.
    -The Matrix is cunning and intelligent. It has a lot of resources.
    -The Matrix wants to have control over what you do and how you do it.
    -The Matrix wants to destroy you if you are helping others get out.
    -If you escape, The Matrix does everything in it's power to make your life difficult.

  13. #343
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    I like that Matrix comparison

  14. #344
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    I read the first 8 pages, and just had to add that I really liked DOS, 6.22 ,7.02 , etc, and was happy to run them on my 66mhz overdriven Pacbell. Yes, I ran dos because win 3.11 broke very badly, and wouldn't run the newer hardware, like a 14.4 modem....anyway, micro$oft had to do someting to get people afraid of this C:\ to use the pc, at work and home. That did happen, we are living proof of that...everyone can use a gui interface, and enjoy it. Or not I love my Linux boxen, and plan on having more of them, soon , but , I will use a win box, if I have to. I just like computing.
    And for a fleeting second...I was not sure if I was a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or, a butterfly dreaming I was a man....Lao-tzu

  15. #345
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    I myself don't hate MS at all. I'll most likely get flamed into the bowels of hell, but I think they have done a lot for the computing industry. There are a whole lot of people who would have never touched a computer if MS hadn't made it so easy for them to do so. Of course, there some less than ethical business practices they engage in...but I don't know that makes them that much different than a great percentage of the companies out there. The main difference perhaps to some of the people here is they are aware of it. Doesn't make it right. But I don't think it is unusual at all. The whole concept of individuals getting wealthy off a companies success seems somewhat unethical to me within itself. But people don't go bashing that. They want to be that But if a corporation exhibits that same greed it is frowned upon. We live in a moronic society where people try to purchase everything and perpetuate the very situations they complain about.

    Greed on the scale of individuals is seen as success. The acquisiton of multiple material items is what is often makes a person to appear to be of value and worth (which is just plain stupid if you think about it). When companies engage in this same practice they are somehow evil? But it's ok for individuals? I don't get it. MS isn't doing anything that any of the other large coporations don't do. They have just been more successful at it. People have a problem with that and this is good. But it's half baked and contradictory at best. People don't get rich by being ethical. And neither do companies. And as a society we look up to both and from birth are taught to try and be both. So who is the problem?

    1. Business=Profit
    2. Profit=Shareholder value
    3. Shareholder value = ethics? no...can't say it does.

    If we as people rewarded companies on their contribution to the world rather than their books the world would be a much better place. Shame it won't ever happen.

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