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Thread: Debate over net neutrality

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwkaz
    This cartoon seems relevant:
    Hmm, I can't help but wonder if you might be a bit confused there. I've never heard of "Web 2.0" referring to anything other than basically AJAX code running at the client.
    Again, media hype rubbish. AJAX has been around for years and is nothing new. If you believe that media garbage, then I've got a bridge you might be interested in purchasing.

    Web 2.0 is going to be the new distributed-server http.

  2. #17
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    Web 2.0 has already come, it is a business model, it is not limited to internet structure.
    O'Reilly-What is Web 2.0?
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  3. #18
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    Media-Hype!


  4. #19
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    it always suprises me how little Linux users or computer users understand the open network and how it evolved. The internet is essentially an offshoot of the US free speech movement as is Linux and the open source software movement itself.
    Doing away with net neutrality would destroy the internet as we know it and make the internet private space instead of public space.
    This goes hand and hand with the fascist movement in the US in general that seems to be running out of steam thank goodness.
    As hard candy pointed out we were able to defeat the proposal to this point but more work is needed. Those who say this issue is media hype and would not effect the fundamental nature of the web appearently understand neither the media (which has been totally silent on this issue) nor the nature of the fascist corporate deregulation beast.

  5. #20
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    So am I the only one laughing when I read "fascist" and "deregulation" both used in the same phrase?

    (BTW: I doubt that Sepero was calling the net neutrality debate "media hype". I bet he was applying that phrase to "Web 2.0", which is what many of us have been talking about in this thread for a while now...)

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwkaz
    So am I the only one laughing when I read "fascist" and "deregulation" both used in the same phrase?
    Maybe, because in my case it makes me frown.

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  7. #22
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    "Meg Whitman, chief executive of the Internet auctioneer, called on more than a million eBay members to get involved in the debate over telecommunications laws and "send a message to your representatives in Congress before it is too late."

    "The telephone and cable companies in control of Internet access are trying to use their enormous political muscle to dramatically change the Internet," Whitman wrote. "It might be hard to believe, but lawmakers in Washington are seriously debating whether consumers should be free to use the Internet as they want in the future."

    This is the first time that eBay has used e-mail to urge its members to weigh in on a national issue, and also the first time Whitman sent it out under her own name, the company said Thursday.

    eBay--which has been active in a pro-Net neutrality coalition for years--confirmed that more than a million e-mails have been sent out so far, but declined to offer a more specific number. The campaign is ongoing. "
    Cnet:Ebay joins net neutrality figh
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  8. #23
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    Interesting fact:
    The starter of this thread is nabetse. nabetse spelled backwards is Esteban. I believe that's spanish for Stephen.

  9. #24
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    The internet is essentially an offshoot of the US free speech movement as is Linux and the open source software movement itself.
    What are the other essentials...The internet was first concieved (before being called the internet) by the US government as a secure way to communicate between locations (DARPA NET I believe). What late became the internet was formed from this same technology/idea to replace the time consuming sneaker nets for data transfer between businesses, office, locations. It has slowly evolved with aid from the government and corporate commities to regulate and help the internet progress into the information superhighway we see today.

    At least this is what you learn in AP CompSci when the teacher is tired of teaching and just shows a video.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sepero
    Interesting fact:
    The starter of this thread is nabetse. nabetse spelled backwards is Esteban. I believe that's spanish for Stephen.
    "Esteban" was a nickname that I had when I was 7 or 8 years old--all due to a cartoon that was on at that time. Strangely enough, I'm Chinese, not Hispanic. And all of my cousins pronounced "Estevan" instead of "Esteban".

    Regarding Net Neutrality, I was simply shocked that there was even such a debate. I had taken the freedoms that we had for granted and was saddened that a few powerful entities would take it away from all of us. I believe that freedom is what made the internet as rich as it is. Taking freedom away would make the internet a hollow shell of what it is now.

    (I recently finished reading "The Giver" by Lois Lowry, which I believe is now making it into the 9th grade English curriculum. It's a compelling story.)

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nabetse
    I had taken the freedoms that we had for granted and was saddened that a few powerful entities would take it away from all of us.
    Have you ever played Wing Commander IV?

    The price of freedom is watchfulness.

    "What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence."

    Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)

  12. #27
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    (I recently finished reading "The Giver" by Lois Lowry, which I believe is now making it into the 9th grade English curriculum. It's a compelling story.)
    Wow I havn't read the book sense the 4th grade! (Im a sophmore in U now) A good book at that but it shows us that a non free as in choices, society will fall because of a rogue know it all and a kid, maybe we need somthing like this to take the power from coporations?
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parcival
    Have you ever played Wing Commander IV?
    Haha, no but I'll look into that.
    Quote Originally Posted by thaddaeus
    maybe we need somthing like this to take the power from coporations
    I don't think our society is as fragile as the one described in the book. Our current power holders will fight tooth and nail while the people in the book didn't know what was comming to them. They just kept following the "rules".

    Oh, and a little update: Cnet: House rejects Net Neutrality bill
    Darn! But it seems like there are more bills that are making its way through our government.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwkaz
    So am I the only one laughing when I read "fascist" and "deregulation" both used in the same phrase?
    well the word fascism was coined in italy where musalini himself defined it as government for and by corporations. corporations by definition are not interested in regulating or restricting themselves or their ability to take us all for a ride as in the internet censorship toll road.
    so fascism and deregulation are in fact very related if not the same thing.

    deregulation as used in US politico speach only means deregulation of buisness.
    individuals get more and more regulations and restrictions.
    Example: In Colorado high desert it is technically illegal for an individual to catch a bucket full of rain water and drink it. (hyper personal regulation) If individual drills a well on their own land they cannot draw over a certain amount of water from it or use the water in certain ways. In the same spot in Colorado an individual cannot legally drain his or her kitchen sink into a potted housplant to keep it alive.
    In contrast on the very same high desert land through "deregulation" of the corporation not the individual. A natuaral gas (Halaberton) company can legally poison the entire water table on anyones land they please. by injecting benzene, toluene, xylene, 2-butoxyethonol, and whatever carcinogen, neurotoxin, endocryn disruptor, or whatever else they care to inject. No need to even disclose what they put in the water. They are free from clean water restrictions and need not disclose "trade secrets". If in fact they find an aquifer is in their way (the same water the individual must be so carefull with) they can waste the entire auqifer on the surface. Even if it takes years to do so.
    freedom in US politico speach only means freedom for buisness to rob people blind, poison and kill without accountability.
    but the individual people go to prison in the middle of the night without charge.
    more individuals without basic freedom locked away in US prisons per capita that any other nation on earth.

    so yea deregulation = fascism and it's quite obvious to anyone who cares to see with realeyes whats going on.
    Last edited by dark_moon; 06-14-2006 at 12:17 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by thaddaeus
    What are the other essentials...The internet was first concieved (before being called the internet) by the US government as a secure way to communicate between locations (DARPA NET I believe). What late became the internet was formed from this same technology/idea to replace the time consuming sneaker nets for data transfer between businesses, office, locations. It has slowly evolved with aid from the government and corporate commities to regulate and help the internet progress into the information superhighway we see today.

    At least this is what you learn in AP CompSci when the teacher is tired of teaching and just shows a video.
    well to say DARPA way back in 1958 has much to do with the internet seems rather absurd.
    ARPA in 1969 was one link between UCLA and Stanford that was the beginning internet. 1969 was the same year we first see "hacker" culture and the year unix was created. 1969 was the year the first RFC was puplished. 1972 Unix was rewritten in c. 1973 first international arpanet connection. 1977 Bill Joy at Berklee creates BSD. When you consider not untill 1990 did there exist web browsers or web pages it becomes rather clear that buisness nor the US government created the internet but rather hackers did. and hacker culture has its roots in the free speech movement.

    This stuff is the origin of the internet.

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