professional Qulaifications

[fruitbat!]

Does any one have suggestion for professional qualifications training in pure linux support, networking, servers etc other than doing a degree. I really don't want to do a degree right now but I am interested in doing some training for professional Q's such as a linux A+ equilent or something similar.

[ph34r]

The book I use to teach my linux admin class (more intro to linux and neat cool stuff you can't do with windows class) maps to a few different certs. Its The Complete Guide to Linux System Administration by Wells from Thompson. ISBN 0619216166

[chameleon]

This is a topic I'm interested in as well, as I've been looking at doing the LPI Certification training/exams.

[mrrangerman43]

I bought a good set of cd's for learning Debian linux, they also have cd sets on linux + networking + Bash scripting Perl Python PHP and a tone of other cd's
The site is www.pctech101.com

Ps. I don't work for them I've just found they're cd's good for learning.

[chameleon]

Useful link thanks.

[Syngin]

Does any one have any faith in people with various certs but with no or little work experience?

From the experience of having hired various people, I'll take people without certs but with work experience over people with certs but no or little real experience every time.

I've been constantly disappointed with employees coming right out of school, even for just our entry level positions. They are so incredibly ill prepared to work in a corporate environment, its not even funny. I have no problem with post secondary schooling but they seem to completely ignore training on problem solving and teamwork abilities (the cornerstone virtues in any IT department IMHO) I don't expect them to know how to address every issue but I do expect them to try their hardest to figure out a solution to the problem and to tackle issues as them come across them. If you're new to the IT industry and are reading this, I cannot stress how important problem solving and teamwork ability are in the workplace enough. It isn't acceptable to just leave a problem unsolved with a shrug of the shoulders and an " I dunno' if it impacts the business process.

We have this one CCNA guy we hired on contract right out of school who is incapable of making even minor decisions by himself and has zero initiative. He's been here 6 months already and still costs me more of my time asking me questions that I've answered for him 5 times already than it would take if I was to include all of his responsibilities in with my own. On top of that, he completely ignores items that need attention unless he's told to do them.

The last MCSE guy was the same way. Both certs are going to be a strike against anyone else I hire in the future unless they have proven experience in the industry.

Sorry for venting. The aforementioned CCNA guy decided to rewire a few things in our networking rack while I was off yesterday (something he was told EXPRESSLY not to touch. ) and our entire manufacturing floor was down for 2 hours this morning. It probably cost the company $15k in lost productivity / unproduced product. He's done as of today.

[Syngin]

Ok. After cooling off, I'd like to apologize for my last post. I was going to delete it but I still think it has a couple of valid points in regards to the topic though.

It seems that it was our general manager that unlocked the door the server room door for him. I swear though, he's as bad as my dog when I leave her alone in the house without emptyngi the kitchen garbage can first.

[chameleon]

Does any one have any faith in people with various certs but with no or little work experience?

No, but certification was never supposed to be a magic recuitment bullet, but something to compliment a wider repitoire.

Both certs are going to be a strike against anyone else I hire in the future unless they have proven experience in the industry.

I think that's maybe an overreaction. There are people out there who have vast skill sets who do various certifications to heave something 'concrete' to show a perspective employer, and you're going to shut off that potential source of new talent? And lets not forget that some companies demand those MCSE type certifications. If you look at the recruitment practices of the industry as a whole, they tend to put potential employees through initiative/logic and teamwork type tasks, this is maybe something you should be doing?

[XiaoKJ]

Actually, this is a "winged animal and its reproductive capsule" problem. If you don't have work exp, you don't get hired. If you don't get hired, you don't get work exp.

If you don't have cert and don't have work exp, then you simply get shoved aside. Then, the only thing you can do is to get certified, and then get something to do. Basically, certs matter for the admin people who really don't understand computing at all, just like those of us who don't know which lawyer to pick, which plumber to choose, so on and so forth.

[chameleon]

Basically, certs matter for the admin people who really don't understand computing at all..

That's a fair point, but if they're doing the hiring and firing, then you've got to dance to their tune.

[mrrangerman43]

Posted by Syngin

We have this one CCNA guy we hired on contract right out of school who is incapable of making even minor decisions by himself and has zero initiative. He's been here 6 months already and still costs me more of my time asking me questions that I've answered for him 5 times already than it would take if I was to include all of his responsibilities in with my own. On top of that, he completely ignores items that need attention unless he's told to do them.

Sounds to me like it's more a problem of work ethics than qualifications with this person. Thats one of the biggest things I see wrong in todays work environment, kids are not taught work ethics anymore at home, so when they get a job it makes it harder on them and everyone they work around.

But also XiaoKJ has a valid point, the company sets the qualifications for a job, they want exp. and the certs. How can a person get both unless someone will take a chance on them? It's a catch 22,

[Crito]

Yeah, certs are for getting past HR, not for impressing other techies. When there were more jobs than candidates (pre-2000 bubble burst) I didn't have any certs and my phone was constantly ringing. Today with 100 applicants for every IT job, if you don't have any certs your resume goes straight into the circular filing cabinet (aka trash can.)

[wheelnut]

I am reasonably well qualified and experienced, but my bosses are not, result, I remain at the bottom of the totem pole. It is not what you know, it is who you know and how you can manipulate them and the system that seems to work. In case you are interested, I have a BSc, MSc, member of the BCS and am a Chartered IT Professional, plus I have 12+ years continuous experience in the industry... I make about £30,000-ish... most of the brass in this place just about have a degree and not in computing - all of my qualifications are in computing or are computing related (ie, not media studies and such).
Certificates are not everything, and in many cases, the hiring people in the companies use it as an excuse not to hire you saying "You are over-qualified".

[stumbles]

........the hiring people in the companies use it as an excuse not to hire you saying ;You are over-qualified.

Oh yeah heard that one before. Except in my case it was said when I had no certs. Go figure.

[Crito]

Well, on a departmental level, I think a lot of big wigs are afraid of MIS/IS/IT these days. They don't want too much power/authority concentrated in any one place. And in all fairness, there are numerous examples of people leaving one company to join another and essentially putting their first employer out of business in the process. So a somewhat incompetent but obedient dog is generally preferred over someone who is brilliant but arrogant.

That's why I'm strictly a consultant actually. I won't even considered "permanent" positions (as if such a thing even exists) as I find corporate environments are frequently hostile towards IT workers. So I barge in like a bulldozer, step on whatever toes need stepping on to get the job done, then leave before the political shiat hits the fan.

Works for me anyway, but I don't have any mouths to feed or any mortgages to pay.