Someone please explain to me why KDE4 is not a disaster?
My first impressions are always negative, and I may be wrong about all of this. Someone please tell me I'm wrong about this.
KDE4 looks like a big fat mess to me. First of all, it really looks like the options for keyboard shortcuts have been scaled way down, and there's no way I can get on board with that. I can't figure out how to move items on the panel. There doesn't appear to be an option for "open with" for files on the desktop. The desktop used to be an extension of Konqueror, which was easy to understand, but now icons on the desktop behave differently than icons in Dolphin or Konqueror.
And what the hell is "plasma"?
I mostly like KDE for the applications, which I usually filter through fluxbox, so if the applications don't change much I guess I shouldn't care, but I do like to use a full-fledged desktop environment sometimes, and for the past couple of years, it's been KDE.
I'm sure that once you get used to it, all of this plasma-oxygen-widgets-dolphin-dashboard stuff combines into a well-thought-out, unified concept, but why in the name of all that's holy did someone apparently decide that I wasn't going to want a keybinding to open a terminal window? What is up with that?
Now, I know from experience that whenever I am this pissed off, it is usually a prelude to me finding out that I am wrong. Boy, will my face be red! I can't wait.
Last edited by blackbelt_jones; 02-05-2008 at 11:50 AM.
Okay, thank God, I was wrong. I have no idea how I stumbled upon it, but there is a way to create custom keyboard shortcuts. I don't know why they couldn't have linked me to it from this other keyboard shortcuts interface, but for the moment, I am placated. It still seems like a mess, but if I can have my keyboard shortcuts, I'm willing to give it a closer look.
Most of the development cycle for KDE 4.0 was spent laying the groundwork for improvements that will come in KDE 4.1. KDE 4 may seem like a mess right now, but the low-level work is mostly done. Now comes the exciting part where application developers get to take advantage of the new features.
And, yes, dolphin sucks, but Konqueror is not going anywhere. It is still the default web browser of KDE and will retain all its other capabilities.
Thanks, paj12, that sounds reasonable. That's just what I wanted to hear. Dolphin isn't bad. I very much like the fact that you can open it with root access... but it bugs me that icons on the desktop behave differently than icons in dolphin/konqueror. I'll come back to it when 4.1 comes out. It does look gorgeous.
Thanks for the link deathadder, I'm an occasional listener, and I'm dying to know what those sods at lugradio have to say. I don't remember registering for the lugradio forums, but apparently I did, back in 2006.
One thing's certain; I need some freaking real keyboard shortcuts!
Last edited by blackbelt_jones; 02-05-2008 at 04:32 PM.
Okay, you know what? To hell with this. I can't prove anything, but I have a strong suspicion that no matter what anyone tells you, as a file manager, Konqueror has been marked for death. I've been searching up and down the toolbar and the button to show hidden files seems to be missing. Okay, maybe it's SUSE that is causing the trouble, but a file manager that can go almost anywhere might as well not exist. This has all the ear marks of sabatoge. This sounds like paranoia when talking about KDE, but if I accused Microsoft of doing something like this, it would seem perfectly reasonable.
In order to view hidden files, I have to open Dolphin. And since Dolphin looks so much like Konqueror, I usually have no idea which I'm using at any given moment. I know a train wreck when I see one, and this is a goddamn train wreck. I'll try the next KDE when it comes out, but I'm fully prepared to hunker down with my stable debian and pray for a good long time before the next release.
Like I've said before, when I'm this pissed off, it's usually a prelude to me finding out that I'm completely wrong. If that's what happens this time, I won't be afraid to admit it.
Okay, you know what? To hell with this. I can't prove anything, but I have a strong suspicion that no matter what anyone tells you, as a file manager, Konqueror has been marked for death. I've been searching up and down the toolbar and the button to show hidden files seems to be missing. Okay, maybe it's SUSE that is causing the trouble, but a file manager that can go almost anywhere might as well not exist. This has all the ear marks of sabatoge. This sounds like paranoia when talking about KDE, but if I accused Microsoft of doing something like this, it would seem perfectly reasonable.
...snip...
Like I've said before, when I'm this pissed off, it's usually a prelude to me finding out that I'm completely wrong. If that's what happens this time, I won't be afraid to admit it.
I don't know of the button you speak of, but in KDE4, OpenSuse, I go to the same place to see hidden files in Konqueror that I did in KDE 3.x--View, then Show Hidden Files.
KDE4 might not be everyone's cup of tea, and it can be frustrating when things change, and we have to adapt to some new ideas/places/whatever. Also, much more _has_ been put into Dolphin for the file management stuff. However, yes, you might be a wee bit paranoid about this whole thing.
I don't know of the button you speak of, but in KDE4, OpenSuse, I go to the same place to see hidden files in Konqueror that I did in KDE 3.x--View, then Show Hidden Files.
KDE4 might not be everyone's cup of tea, and it can be frustrating when things change, and we have to adapt to some new ideas/places/whatever. Also, much more _has_ been put into Dolphin for the file management stuff. However, yes, you might be a wee bit paranoid about this whole thing.
Of course I looked under "view"! Every gnu/linux desktop application in the history of ever puts "show hidden files" under "view"! If Konqueror has a "show hidden file" somewhere, it's not under "view". Not in opensuse anyway. Since the button isn't there, it doesn't matter whether I'm being paranoid or not. If I can't access hidden files with Konqueror, it'll kill Konqueror as a desktop file manager. Whether it's premeditated murder, negligent homicide, or a drunk driving hit-and-run doesn't matter.
KDE4 isn't that bad, it's cleaner and faster, and it looks great, and I can work around the paucity of keybindings... but I won't tolerate changes to Konqueror. Konqueror is the only desktop application I really couldn't live without. Konqueror is the most powerful desktop application I have ever seen. Dolphin doesn't come close, though it comes closer than anything else. I'm still making amazing discoveries in Konqueror. Just last week I got Konqueror reading documents out loud with Festival for the first time, something that allows me to retain a lot more when I read documentation. Konqueror is not the best web browser out there, but the fact that it's a web browser/file manager makes it possible to create html links that will do just about anything. I have created local html pages with links that opened emacs, opened my fluxbox configuration files with kwrite for quick updating, played a mozart playlist with xmms. Konqueror can export text as html for easy reading. It allows me to bookmark a directory and then open a terminal there, thus speeding up navigation at the command line. It allows me to quicky find the path of any file. Change Konqueror and hundreds of Konqueror fanatics like me will start our own DE with KDE source code. You can be absolutely sure of that.
Dolphin is a very fine desktop application. Don't change Konqueror.
Last edited by blackbelt_jones; 02-06-2008 at 12:29 AM.
Okay, well, here's a horrible new development! When I hit F4 to open a terminal window in Konqueror, the terminal opens to my home directory, not the present working directory. This is all ****ed up!
P.S. Just wiped that opensuse system, so I won't be tempted to mess with it anymore, and I won't have to complain about it anymore. Unfortunate releases happen sometimes.
Last edited by blackbelt_jones; 02-06-2008 at 02:27 AM.
Of course I looked under "view"! Every gnu/linux desktop application in the history of ever puts "show hidden files" under "view"! If Konqueror has a "show hidden file" somewhere, it's not under "view". Not in opensuse anyway.
Well, it took me all of five seconds to find it, in OpenSuse.
I don't really care if you use KDE4 or not; I just thought I would help you out a little, and maybe slow down your rant about a missing feature that is actually there.
Maybe Konqueror is no longer opening up in File Management mode (aka view profile) by default; I don't know.
Anyway, here's a screenshot showing you what I'm talking about.
Well, it took me all of five seconds to find it, in OpenSuse.
I don't really care if you use KDE4 or not; I just thought I would help you out a little, and maybe slow down your rant about a missing feature that is actually there.
Maybe Konqueror is no longer opening up in File Management mode (aka view profile) by default; I don't know.
Anyway, here's a screenshot showing you what I'm talking about.
Good luck.
I promise you, I looked there, again and again. This must be a bug fix from 4.0 to 4.01, and thank god!
There were other problems, but as you can see from my last post, I already effectively ended my rant by wiping the opensuse partition. Clearly, I am much too excitable to be messing with KDE 4 until it gets to 4.1.
When KDE 4 was still in beta, there was a Live CD of Debian sid with the new KDE packages from experimental. They appear to have taken it down, but the web page says "Coming Soon." Presumably, they're redoing it now that KDE 4.0 is released. I plan to check it out once they put the link back up. Maybe you would like that better than OpenSuSE.
When KDE 4 was still in beta, there was a Live CD of Debian sid with the new KDE packages from experimental. They appear to have taken it down, but the web page says "Coming Soon." Presumably, they're redoing it now that KDE 4.0 is released. I plan to check it out once they put the link back up. Maybe you would like that better than OpenSuSE.
What's the matter? Do you miss my ranting already? I think I'll just wait till 4.1.
Actually, what I was thinking of doing was installing Debian Sid on that spare partition.
Last edited by blackbelt_jones; 02-06-2008 at 06:31 PM.
"What's the matter? Do you miss my ranting already? I think I'll just wait till 4.1."
Your rants are a lot of times about something thats not even true.
Like the statement you made in this thread.
Have you any idea what sort of effort the programmers of kde4 did to make this happen.
Give kde4 untill 4.1
Well, I think it it was true, but apparently it had already been fixed. I had 4.0, and quip had 4.0.1, which was all about bugfixes,
Or at least that's my story. I went right to that menu and looked it up and down several times. It's hard to imagine that I could have missed the exact thing that I was looking for, in a list of about seven items, when I checked that menu at least four times. I wish I hadn't deleted it now, so I could give it another look.
I certainly overreacted and I apologize for that, but it was a premature release. And when you release things prematurely, people freak.
Last edited by blackbelt_jones; 02-06-2008 at 11:42 PM.
Originally Posted by blackbelt_jones
I think I'll just wait till 4.1.
