Ubuntu = Linux???


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Thread: Ubuntu = Linux???

  1. #1
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    Ubuntu = Linux???

    I read an article (maybe on here) within the last couple of weeks that was point out the fact that the non-technical world is starting to confuse Ubuntu with Linux. It was just another interesting article until last night.

    I attended a technology meeting for our school district that was discussing needs for next year. One topic was these new very cheap boxes from Shuttle, Asus and others. One member made the statement that these boxes were half to a third the cost of the Dells that were normally purchased and would run any OS, be it Windows, MacOS, or Ubuntu. The very knowledgeable head of technology politely corrected him that XP is no longer realistically available and while a Celeron with 512 of ram of memory might run Vista, it would be a pig. Also that there are probably experts out there that could make MacOS run on one of these, that is not really a valid option.

    But the real kicker was after the technology head made the statement that Linux would run very well on such a machine, but that the district would have to plan carefully if they intended to deploy Linux after years of Windows. (As much as I like Linux, I had to wholeheartedly agree with this statement.)

    Then...
    The original speaker stated that we needed to stick to the three "standard" operating systems, not branch out and include one made for hobbyists and engineers. In other words, he didn't know that Ubuntu is a distro of Linux.

    This was a well-meaning individual who had just enough information to be dangerous - a type that I have met over many decades. We realised that over the past few years, we had badly neglected an important part of our jobs - educating non-techie types on current events and products.

    Konan

  2. #2
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    Well, if you start channeling Richard Stallman, it should be GNU/Linux, since Linux is just the kernel and everything else comes from GNU or others...

  3. #3
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    Channeling?! Let's leave the New Age stuff out of this . 'Selling' Linux to the masses is difficult enough as it is.

    But this original poster is correct. I've talked to folks and almost without fail they ask about the difference between Linux and Ubuntu. As if they are not related at all. I politely try to clarify their misconception and hope another one of the uninformed walks away with at least a better understanding of the Linux world.

    I'd like to proudly say that I've converted a hand full of people to the Light. Maybe they will do the same. And those will also do like wise. Before you know it, we'll conquer the world!!!

    For now, let them think Ubuntu and Linux have nothing to do with each other. As long as they do look into Linux.
    Thanks,
    Loopback48

    Debian fanboy. And only Debian.

    http://www.debiantutorials.org/

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konan
    Then...
    The original speaker stated that we needed to stick to the three "standard" operating systems, not branch out and include one made for hobbyists and engineers. In other words, he didn't know that Ubuntu is a distro of Linux.

    Konan
    So I hope that someone publically corrected Professor Buffoon, and he was suitably embarassed.

    The good news is that this guy has heard of Ubuntu, and has a favorable idea of it. As a former member of the "He-Man Ubuntu Hater's Club", I sympathize with those who feel Ubuntu is stealing the limelight from other deserving distros, but we're going to need a breakaway distro to carry the message to the non-geeks+. It almost doesn't matter which distro it is, but there needs to be a popular favorite, so that newcomers won't be overwhelmed by distro choices on top of everything else. I cringe whenever some poor unfortunate asks for help picking a distro in here and gets swamped from all directions. There needs to be an obvious first choice, and there are plenty of reasons why Ubuntu has assumed the mantle.

  5. #5
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    The answer is there is only one Linux for the desktop and it is Sabayon!

  6. #6
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    Debian Forever!! Or at least till I find some other distro that I like better.

    But anyway...
    I agree that there are way too many distros to make newbies comfortable, but after considerable thought on the subject I have the the following question...

    "Who cares if a non-technical newbie adopts Linux or not?""

    I have said before, 98 percent of the Windows user base has nothing to bring to Linux except problems. Like logging as root to avoid security blocks, then clicking on every offered link that comes in, no matter from where. This isn't theory - years ago I had several schools as customers who just gave up on learning Novell security and just let everyone log in as Supervisor. If all Winders users suddenly see the light and convert tomorrow, about the only things the Linux world will get out of it is satisfaction, and probably manufacturer drivers (which would be the one good thing).

    I have turned from being a Linux evangelist to just being a Linux supporter. That is, if someone asks about Linux and wants to give it a try, I will be glad to help. But I never even offer Linux to someone who either knows nothing about its existence or who is just an icon clicker. That is a sure way to get an unending stream of complaints that "That isn't the way Windows does it!"

    As of now, enough of the world (not including the USA) has or is adopting Linux in enough quantity to assure that Linux can't be stopped. The worry that MS and others would force BIOS writers, hardware and Motherboard manufacturers to build to MS specifications only (that is to say, lock out all others) is totally gone. Even a 2 percent Linux desktop number, when combined with the vast number of Linux servers, represents millions of machines. Sometime in the last year or so, probably the date of Vista's release, is what future historians will mark as the high point of MicroSoft and the beginning of their slide to just another big company. Or little company, if they screw up Vista's replacement.

    Who was it that said "Being rich wouldn't be nearly so much fun if there weren't so many poor people?" If Windows disappears, who are we going to make fun of?

    Konan

  7. #7
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    Hi Guys

    Remember me. I used to be a regular here years ago then started gaming a lot, which dragged me away from linux.

    I am installing linux on my spare machine for the first time in years. There are many reasons for being away for so long, if anyone expresses interest I'll start a new thread.

    I chose ubuntu as my new launch point. why? well I am an ex-mepis fan. I used this for a couple of years and was comfortable with it but then the newer versions became less and less what I wanted stuff the worked before just didn't so I gave up. Alongside Mepis I used Suse (9 I think) and before that... You guessed it Ubuntu (more specifically Kbuntu). This is my first time with Gnome and hopefully I will approach it without prejudice and get on well.

    It is installing as I speak, I gave it a whole 160GB disk and the run of the PC, hows that for confidence. I used to multiboot with suse (to nick config files from) and windows scupper (XP). Anyway I hope to get back into this. Hopefully do some development this time (scary).

    On topic I think its a good thing that a linux distro is gaining fame among the great unwashed, it can't hurt the other distros, linux will always be about choice, without ubuntu making the news maybe I wouldn't be typing this now.

  8. #8
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    Open Letter Response to You Linux Old Timers

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    There aren't too many distros, it's called choice. Having always considered myself relatively saavy with Windows, meaning the Registry wasn't a complete mystery to me, I always thought I'd stick with it. Not anymore. The choices offered by GNU/Linux distros has me excited again. I'm just kicking myself for not doing this pre-XP.

    How new am I to Linux? So new that I don't have a distro loaded yet. I'm sold on variety. I've given Bill and Co. the last nickel they'll see from me. Linux in all it's flavors offers me a choice Windows never could.

    I'll have a distro loaded on an older Dell box (1 Ghz, 1 GB RAM, 32 MB Vid RAM) in a couple weeks. Still piecing together old parts. Linux offers me the very best alternative to Microsoft, especially for an older box.

    I've got a couple of friends who are "icon clickers" who are considering the Ubuntu distro for machines currently taking up space in their attics. I told them, just from my reading, this would be a very good way to ressurect their respective boxes as a second home machine just to surf and e-mail. No experience or techie skills required. ~They have some skills but aren't keen on command line.

    One of these friends said his old WinME machine just got slower and slower the longer it was running. I told him he probably has a few hundred trojans and viruses tracking his every move as well as memory issue Win is known for. Again, an easy distro of Linux -- such as Ubuntu -- would certainly meet his needs to keep this box viable for some time to come. And it would be far more secure to boot. Worse case, he could always boot Knoppix LiveCD and surf that way.

    I have run my Knoppix LiveCD several times and been very impressed. In some cases it outperforms my WinXP box -- FROM THE CD! Why? Because Windows, as you all certainly know, loads a kajillion drivers and services which are wholly unnecessary for the average user.

    Sincerely,
    A Soon-to-be Convert

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExWinUzer
    Dear Sir or Madam,

    There aren't too many distros, it's called choice.
    Note that I didn't say that there are too many distros - just too many to make a complete newbie comfortable. That is demonstrated by the frequent questions "Which is the best distro?" and "Which distro should I try?"

    I imagine the average newbie thinks of Linux like XP - that it is one entity, or it has a home and enterprise version, maybe. Then he/she hits someplace like distrowatch.com that lists "only" the 100 most popular distros. Kind of like the first time I was told to edit the Registry and assumed that it was some kind of config.file that is normal in Linux. Instead it looked like the output of a barfing spell checker and I was totally lost.

    You, however, have indicated an interest in how Linux works and are not the type of newbie that I was ranting about. I have a virtual 100% success rate in converting Windows users who came to me first. That type of newbie I welcome. But I have a total absence of success with people that I (first) suggested might have a better surfing/computing experience if they switched.

    That doesn't mean that the last type of person is stupid, inferior or anything like that. They just have no interest in technology. The computer to them is like a phone - they just want it to work. Heck, it is hard enough to get that category of person to upgrade to the next version of a word processor, let alone a totally new OS.

    So, welcome to the real desktop world - one where half of your processor cycles don't get used in running Virus checkers. I think you will like it.

    Konan

  10. #10
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    Konan,

    Only kidding on the "distros."

    I can see by your post you're not the type that blows off anyone with a question. But there will always be those who forget where they came from by becoming the elitist snobs (the RTFMs!) of any user group bunch, this includes Mac, Win, UNIX or any other OS. This has the unfortunate side effect of turning people away. For now, I don't see that in most Linux groups.

    Just my reading of this site and a few others, it appears the Linux community in general is very accepting of newbies, like me. I'll have questions but am the type that will do my own research first. If I can't find it I'm not afraid to make a fool of myself in the threads.

    I'm dipping my feet into GNU/Linux by loading either: Freespire, Ubuntu, Foresight, gOS, SUSE, SLAX or PCLinuxOS. Just want to try out a couple to see what works best for me. I'll settle on one after a couple of weeks then go into the deep end of the pool once I get comfortable. For now I keep reading all I can find with regard to command line, syntax, shell prog, etc.

    It's nice to know this repository exists.

    GE

  11. #11
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    But there will always be those who forget where they came from by becoming the elitist snobs (the RTFMs!) of any user group bunch, this includes Mac, Win, UNIX or any other OS.
    I'll never forget the first time I started using Linux...I sent a message to a friend on a (non-Linux) forum asking how to install the amsn messenger. He responded with the instructions copied and pasted from the website (it wasn't even really an install, just a tar with the binary inside it. So all I had to do was download it, make the binary executable, and then run it from there). But he did it in a kind manner. He also told me that I "better not be running as root" or he would come slap me. I responded with a question like "what is root?"

    Every one of us has been there at some point be it 10 years ago, 3 years ago, or 3 months ago. In general I think the users of this forum in particular are very willing to help. Your post is a good reminder that we should all take a step back when answering posts and think about what skill levels this person has when answering.
    "The author of that poem is either Homer or, if not Homer, somebody else of the same name."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExWinUzer
    Konan,

    But there will always be those who forget where they came from by becoming the elitist snobs (the RTFMs!) of any user group bunch, this includes Mac, Win, UNIX or any other OS.
    Alas, you are correct. I really get ticked by self important "Gurus" who blow off what they think are stupid questions. And get really P.Oed when it happens in something like a newsgroup with "beginners" in the title. If they are such high level experts and they don't like beginners, then why are they hanging around a beginners forum anyway? The usual answer is, they are just trolling for targets.

    Of course, when a message like "My new Linux won't work, please help asap!!!" gets posted then it is quite proper to do a little level setting on the sender on how to ask a question. But RTFM is usually not the proper answer to a person who doesn't even know the MAN pages exist yet.

    Interestingly enough, the RTFM crowd is not uniform over all the Internet forums. Back in Red Hat 7.x days, when I was a Linux beginner, I could - and did - ask beginner questions all night and get really good replies. But when I started learning Perl, I would do almost anything to not have to resort to posting my problem on any of those forums. That was a sure way to get blasted by multiple individuals because I wasn't born knowing that %hash{'Key'} does not equal $hash->{'Key'}. Interestingly, I am now about 6 years into Perl, and know it very well, but so far it hasn't turned me into one of those anti-newbie types.

    Back to my original post, the group just got one of those new Asus EEPC jobs and have fallen in love with it. To me it is a tinkertoy laptop (although very well constructed) with keys that are far too small for any but an elementary schooler to type on. But it looks like the District may begin a test move to Linux. Would never have believed it.

    Konan

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konan

    Back to my original post, the group just got one of those new Asus EEPC jobs and have fallen in love with it. To me it is a tinkertoy laptop (although very well constructed) with keys that are far too small for any but an elementary schooler to type on. But it looks like the District may begin a test move to Linux. Would never have believed it.

    Konan
    Maybe primary schools should be issueing Asus EEPCs to the next generation. A good starting point in computing.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konan
    Back to my original post, the group just got one of those new Asus EEPC jobs and have fallen in love with it. To me it is a tinkertoy laptop (although very well constructed) with keys that are far too small for any but an elementary schooler to type on. But it looks like the District may begin a test move to Linux. Would never have believed it.
    Konan
    So, will they be deploying EeePC's, or maybe doing an Edubuntu terminal/server setup?

    on a related note, my kids' school has Dells with XP, and at home I have a mix of XP, Slackware (Zenwalk), ubuntu and Slax. My kids use any od them with ease and the point I am trying to make to them is that the computer is a tool, learn to be comfortable on any of the platforms and you'll be an asset to future employers and adaptable enough to work on whatever you find thrust at you.
    Slackware current (Dell Latitude D610)
    CentOS 5.2 (Servers)
    Registered Linux User # 375030

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by psych-major
    So, will they be deploying EeePC's, or maybe doing an Edubuntu terminal/server setup?
    It is way too early to say. They are really trying to address the problem of what to do when they need new machines. Their few Vista/Dell installs have been a disaster and have been converted to XP. Right now the tech head says that they have a Texas site license for XP and are going to continue to install it on new machines. However, I don't know what the legality of that will be after the XP shutoff in June.

    Right now they have some Linux servers and like them, but no plans to switch to Linux in the classroom in the immediate future. However, if Vista is suddenly jammed down their throats that may change. So we are just exploring our options before hand. The last thing I want to see is a hurry up switchover - that will almost guarantee that Linux is thrown out and never used again. Heck, just moving the district from 98 to XP several years ago almost caused suicides in the tech department. Imagine trying to swap OS's on thousands of machines over a 2 month summer and what would happen when school resumed in the fall. Texas necktie parties aren't THAT far in the past.

    Konan

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