Anyone else annoyed with KDE 4.X?

[cybertron]

Of course the default is KDE 4.2 and it's a massive PITA to set up how I want it. If I select slide show for the desktop background then the desktop icons disappear.

I haven't had that particular problem, but this is one of those areas that I find 4 lacking compared to 3. I realize that multi-monitor use isn't all that common, but nonetheless KDE 3 had support for wallpapers spanning monitors, so it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that KDE 4 doesn't.

I can't find the equivalent to the KDE 3.5.9 quick launcher (which we both use heavily),

Thankfully there is a fix for this. Quick launch (like almost everything else in KDE 4) is now a plasmoid. If you can't find it you might need to install a package, but it should be there somewhere.

the menu system just plain sucks.

The first thing I did was remove the menu and replace it with the Lancelot plasmoid. My version still has some minor cosmetic bugs, but for the most part it works well enough to keep me happy.

And dolphin... could we use a bit more real estate?

I tend to agree that it feels a little cramped in its default setup, but you can always turn off the sidebars, the right of which is particularly superfluous IMNSHO. I like that they got rid of some of the unnecessary toolbar buttons by default though - I've never used the copy/cut/paste buttons in any program that provided them ever. I do like having the split button right there because I tend not to use a split view, but it's really nice when copying files from one place to another.

Overall I have been finding KDE 4.X a complete kludge and why I refuse to upgrade my own systems.

I disagree and agree respectively. It's not a kludge - it's actually a very carefully architected and extensible system. The problem is that they spent so much time architecting that they forgot to polish the implementation (which often happens when engineering types are in charge instead of actual managers). For that reason I also have not upgraded and don't plan to until at least 4.3 releases. Kind of gives new meaning to the "don't use .0 releases" conventional wisdom when the second maintenance release for a piece of software still isn't really ready for primetime.

And no I don't like Gnome either, I find it just about as limited as KDE 4.X. I dunno, I have a set up that works for me at the office and at home that I just have not been able to replicate with KDE 4.x or Gnome DE's.

This kind of goes back to my comments on the background issues. The stereotypical KDE user tweaks the living daylights out of their WM, so when they released 4 and it was probably the least customizable WM out there it was a serious problem. They're better now in 4.2, but it's still not anywhere near what 3 was.

So has anyone else run into this or felt this way? Who knows maybe I am just an old fart that doesn't want to change, but I really can't find many redeeming qualities in KDE 4.X.

Again I'm partially in agreement. I'm not crazy about KDE 4 right now, but I do see potential there. I like being able to embed arbitrary folders into my desktop, rather than being forced to put everything in the Desktop folder if I want it there. I think plasmoids could be very useful, but right now they're a bit buggy for my tastes. I love the new file selection options (in list view, click on the icon and it adds it to the selection rather than opening it when you've got one-click opening turned on) and the eye-candy is actually very nice when it works.

Unfortunately "Nice when it works" is probably the way I would describe my experience with KDE 4 thus far.

[blackbelt_jones]

Yes you can do that in 4.2

Well, maybe you can't, but it can be done...

I don't think I tried that since I first noticed the Folderview option, maybe KDE4.2.1 or 4.2.2. It's a nice step forward.

Like I said, it's objectively awesome, but after about 36 hours, I've already reinstalled KDE3 (along with Debian Lenny), because I just find it to be more usable. I can move the panels around, move the items from panel to panel, and I don't have to keep locking and unlocking everything.

For widgets, I find that I prefer Opera, which I think is a lot more usable than the widgets in KDE. If I close a widget, and open it again, it returns to the exact same spot. Every time I reopen a widget in KDE, it has to be adjusted all over again. Of course, best of all, I can use the Opera widgets with KDE3, KDE4, Gnome, Ice WM... or, even God forbid, Windows. Here's a screenshot of Opera Widgets in Fluxbox:

http://twitpic.com/9uqj6

If I ever really have to switch to KDE4, I'll do it without complaining... very much. it's not that big a deal. It's beautiful, it's ingenuous, it's got a huge following for a reason, and I'd rather switch than fight, if you know what I mean. But I think that KDE3 should remain as an option, and I intend to support it as long as I can... or until I change my mind.

[Calipso]

blackbelt, where did you get that wallpaper in your fluxbox shot? It's really nice.

[blackbelt_jones]

blackbelt, where did you get that wallpaper in your fluxbox shot? It's really nice.

I'm not sure. I tend to download wallpapers in big batches via ktorrent, throw them in a huge pile, and randomize them. I'll try to find it for you, and post it where you can download it.

[blackbelt_jones]

The best thing about KDE 4.3 is that Konqueror is finally usable as a file manager again, thanks to the long overdue restoration of the dirfilter toolbar. Dolphin is actually pretty nice, but I prefer konqueror because that's what I've always used (and also because I'm a bitter old man who HATES THE FUTURE and FEARS CHANGE !) Dolphin has had the filterbar since it first appeared, and of course, Konqueror 3.5 had it, but whenever I wanted to use the filterbar to locate specific files out of a big directory, I had to open dolphin. It made me crazy to be forced to use something other than what I wanted to use. At first I became conspiratorial, convinced that Konqueror (the awesome filemanager) had been marked for death, in order to make room for Konqueror (the mediocre web browser that almost no one uses). Later I became convinced that he the dirfilter must be there somewhere. I did google searches, posted inquiries on forums, and then did more google searches, which mostly turned up my own inquiries. I clicked all over the konqueror interface searching up and down over and over. Over several months, I'm sure I spent hours at this. I got madder and madder, crazier and crazier.

So now it's finally been restored. It's case sensitive, which is not a good thing for this kind of application IMO. There may be a way to fix it, but I'm too happy to care or complain.he long overdue restoration of the dirfilter toolbar. Dolphin is actually pretty nice, but I prefer konqueror because that's what I've always used (and also because I'm a bitter old man who HATES THE FUTURE and FEARS CHANGE !) Dolphin has had the filterbar since it first appeared, and of course, Konqueror 3.5 had it, but whenever I wanted to use the filterbar to locate specific files out of a big directory, I had to use dolphin. It made me crazy to be forced to use something other than what I wanted to use. At first I became conspiratorial, convinced that Konqueror (the awesome filemanager) had been marked for death, in order to make room for Konqueror (the mediocre web browser that almost no one uses). Later I became convinced that he the dirfilter must be there somewhere. I did google searches, posted inquiries on forums, and then did more google searches, which mostly turned up my inquiries. I clicked all over the konqueror interface searching up and down over and over. I got madder and madder, crazier and crazier.

So now it's finally been restored. It's case sensitive, which is not a good thing for this kind of application IMO. There may be a way to fix it, but I'm too happy to care or complain, or to start another round of frustrating google searches.

Here's the thing with KDE4, as I see it at this time. Now, of course, this is just my opinion, and this is where usually someone tells me that I'm wrong, and I usually am. If it happens, I'm not going to be surprised, and we'll all learn something, or at least I will. So let's just go through the "blackbelt is wrong again dance", if that's what it comes to.

KDE4 doesn't suck. The plasmoids suck... because they don't hold information, and the plasma themes suck... because they tend to be based on sameness. There is no plasma theme that I know of that allows for different colored widgets. And the transparency causes visibility problems. So does the tendency to make themes that are supposed to look three dimensional, and themes that are supposed to look shiny.

For me, the solution is to use folderview, one or two plasma widgets (I like the analog clock) and for the rest to use opera widgets instead of plasmoids. Opera widgets are opaque, flat, not shiny, and colorful. They retain information. If you close them and reopen them, they return to the same spot.

screenshot

If you use the folderview mode, and you don't use the plasmoids, what you're left with looks and acts a lot like KDE 3.5, although setting up and adjusting the panels aren't as easy. So (if you're not a fan of the whole plasma thing) KDE4 sort of feels like a downgrade... but not a terrible one. If the world revoled around me, KDE4 would be a terrible mistake. Since it doesn't, I have to live with stuff that I don't like. Other people love the whole plasma thing, and I'd be willing to take the hit so they can get what they want, even if I had a choice, which I don't.

Or maybe I do According to Aaron Seigo, if people continue to use KDE3, it'll be maintained, if not developed. I hope that happens, but this either way, after almost a year of obsessive freaking out from yours truly, this is turning out to be not worth being up in arms about. KDE4 is a minor inconvenience at worst, at best... well, who knows where this could lead? Sometimes, maybe rapid development is the price you have to pay for... rapid development!