Suggestion: When asking for help, when offering help, speak google.

[blackbelt_jones]

The thread about documentation woes in Linux reminds me of the problems I had in the beginning, and the most frustrating thing was that I often couldn't find the information I was looking for in Google, even though it was absolutely there. But I didn't really understand enough to do the correct search.

Example back in the beginning I was trying to install my proprietary nVidia graphics card, and in order to do this, i had to use the console with X.

So here is the search parameter I attempted: console login

I was thinking I needed to log in to the console, not disable X by switching runlevels. You can login at the console with KDM, but I'm told that when you do that, X is actually still running. So I was searching for the wrong thing... and what's worse, my search parameters generated pages and pages of useless articles that I had to wade through, not knowing that there was nothing useful at the end. This was the most frustrating feeling ever. Google was supposed to have all the information in the world, but the information that I needed wasn't there. I don't know why I didn't give up on Linux back then.

At this point, i really expect there are very few problems a Desktop user is going to get with Linux that isn't addressed somewhere where Google or another search engine can find it, so if you can't find it with a search, ask for help with your search. You're going to get helped a lot faster and a lot more cheerfully if you're not asking someone to write out the answer to your problem word for word when it probably isn't necessary.

[stumbles]

I can relate but once I got the search parameters right, finding the right information was much easier. But that was then. The most annoying thing in recent years is the need to be even narrower in your search parameters; else you have to wade through tons of useless hits about;

1. How to install $APP using $DISTROS package management tool. Frankly I blame the scads of *buntu links which far out weight any other $DISTRO.

a) Then landing at a forum where they tell you to reinstall the $APP. For $DEITIES sake, this isn't windows.

b) Reboot. Sigh.

2. Wade through tons of hits that are not even related to your $DISTRO. Like "How to install the perfect $WHAT_EVER. Such useless waste of electrons.

a) There is not perfect install of anything; else one install would have been perfect.

b) Then you done nor will you ever have the perfect distro.

3. The slime balls that have globed onto the FOSS world with links to nothing more than a reformat of a man page with lots of useless other links.

There are probably more but that's all I can think of at the moment.

[Pafnoutios]

[/INDENT]3. The slime balls that have globed onto the FOSS world with links to nothing more than a reformat of a man page with lots of useless other links.

The nicely formatted man pages don't bother me as much as the re-branded forums. They copy a public forum's threads (often *buntu's), then try to ask for membership to their forum to view the answers.

[Chess007]

My advice to newbies is usually geared toward how to form a good google query. For example, while

how do I use apt-get

would likely garner good results, the search terms

apt-get how to

or

apt-get guide

would likely bring better results. The way I explain it is to "use relevant words not complete sentences." Also, starting at www.google.com/linux rather than www.google.com is good advice.

However, if a person doesn't know what they are looking for they may often need to use a more general search to start with. If I'm a newbie and have no idea what the linux gui is called I might search

linux gui won't start

rather than

xwindows won't start

I've found it best to search specific error messages. Often times they lead to a forum (or forums) with good suggestions as to what to do.

As an aside, google needs to blacklist experts-exchange.com as they want registration before they show any answers. I have no problem with a "pay for solutions" model but don't trick me into clicking your link for a solution only to ask me to register. :P

[nuttron]

@Chess007;
Unfortunately there has been no more google/linux specific page for a while now :-)
nuttron

[trilarian]

Distro's have their own wiki (well at least I know Debian does) that is a good read for starting out (has intro, install howto, and other clean docs).

When I took the plunge into Linux I was using MetaCrawler which was more technical in search content at the time (seems to just search the search engines now. ). At any rate, I remember spending a week or more per problem almost 95%+ of the time originating from a new install (think my first post here was trying to get sound on a new Mandrake install). The big thing that kept me from throwing up my hands in defeat was keeping my windows and dual boot until I had a working system.

If the Ubuntu links get annoying, add -ubuntu to your query.

[blackbelt_jones]

Well, none of this addresses the problems I had for the first couple of years, and mind you, that was almost ten years ago, so the current state of the internet has nothing to do with it. So let me reiterate: I lacked the understanding to scare up a good search, and it was the most frustrating part of those frustrating early days, except when people would treat me like an idiot and tell me to "try google".

People give up on linux because they don't like feeling like idiots, and then they quite naturally blame Linux, because the alternative is to believe that they are idiots. Learning Linux was absolutely worth it for me, but it was also hard, and people always beat up on me when i least deserved it. Once I ordered a pizza, and spent a whole sunday trying to compile a new kernel, like eight to ten hours. And someone was really condescending to me, because I was supposed to use modprobe. Incidentally, I still don't know what the hell modprobe is.

You want people to do things for themselves, and nobody has the time to answer every question, but suggesting search parameters takes no more time than being a huge dick.

[trilarian]

I guess I don't exclusively associate online rudeness to Linux forums.

I lucked out having mdwatts step me through my early days of Linux, and already knew how to search online before I took the plunge. Using a distro wiki does alleviate some of the confusion by only showing you one way of doing things (who cares about apt-get if you are on Red Hat, right?).

Linux aside, I think what you are implying applies to any support oriented forum, and unfortunately, will never really go away.