KDE's "Start" Menu

[happybunny]

I have only seen pictures, and used KDE 4.x off a live CD for about 4 minutes, but does the new "Start" menu suck or is it just me?

Today in gnome, and KDE 3.x'ish, I click "Start" once, then just move the mouse to the group i want, hover to the next section, then click a second time on the app I want.

It seems to me that in KDE I have to click Start, then click Applications, then click games, then click Suduko.

It was even worse in Suse KDE earlier where after all that new clicking, I was still left with a folder open on my desktop containing several app's NOT the one I wanted to run at the time.

Anyway, it seems to me that KDE is driving more towards the Microsoft mentality of getting in my way and almost pop'ing up with a bubble that says "It looks like you are trying to play a game, would you like help with that?"!

Again, I haven't really used it much, but that menu system just seems so obtrusive I shy away from even trying it.

[klackenfus]

It seems to me that in KDE I have to click Start, then click Applications, then click games, then click Suduko.

That sounds exactly like Windows! Is there a "Classic View?"

[hlrguy]

Mandriva with KDE 4 defaults to the "old style". I too hate the new style, however, I have heard that the new style start system can be configured so that it doesn't require a click, simply mouse over the next submenu opens it. I am still a little weary of the new KDE. I support a lot of users running Linux and the widgets are "OK" but have yet to figure out how to stop the "extras' menu (the x, configure, move, etc) dialogues that pop up when you place the mouse on the "icon" on the desktop.

Ran that by a couple of users and it just confuses them. Very glad to see the new Amarok get back the playlist search item.

In all, discussion about all the changes is great, but let's keep an open mind about it until it is deemed "done". Just my ramblings.

hlrguy

[hlrguy]

Oh yeah, and Karumba and KDE need to get together, they do not play well at all.

hlrguy

[cybertron]

I agree, the new start menus are much less streamlined than the older, less stylish versions. It's a real pain when you're looking for something (did they hide the console in System or Utilities?) because every time you go into the wrong folder you have to click the back button to get out, rather than just mousing over the next menu like you could before. For my money the basic menu structure, possibly with a recently used area, is hands down the best layout for start menus. Trying to improve it by complicating things is only going to make it worse.

On the other hand, some of the other stuff in KDE 4 is very promising. I like the ability to embed more than just the Desktop folder on my desktop so I can have frequently used folders always immediately available. The widgets are nice, though a bit lacking in variety at this point. And it does look gorgeous. For my laptop I'm mostly liking it, but it's not ready for my primary desktop where I spend most of my time. I'm still not 100% sure it should be out of beta yet (although 4.1 is a big improvement over 4.0).

[blackbelt_jones]

You have a lot of options!

There's the the new menu

the "classic" menu,

and now, there a new, third launcher that comes with KDE 4.2 called lancelot. Lancelot aims to be comprehensive, the one place where you go to launch everything. Like the other two menus, it's available as a widget.

Also, there's still an application menu available through Konqueror, and you can open that in Dolphin, too if you like.

But the fastest way to open applications is with the keyboard. They're really enhanced the RUN APPLICATIONS dialogue,

plus, with 4.2, the've finally got the "action inputs" dialogue working, thereby enabling infinite keyboard shortcuts.

However, I wonder if everybody understands that Konqueror and Dolphin both enable you to add custom links (with custom icons) to applications and locations anywhere with in the file system. I don't think I ever really understood this myself until I started fooling around with folderview in KDE 4.1. You can make Konqueror/Dolphin into a custom menu. Or several custom menus. You can combine files and custom icon links any way you like. I'm pretty sure nautilus can't do this. The best part for me is that I can use my custom Konqueror/Dolphin menus with a Window manager like fluxbox or fvwm-crystal. So it's not only a custom menu, it's a universal menu that can be accessed from any Desktop Environment or Window manager

... but if you use the KDE4 Desktop, folderview really shows off this feature to its best advantage. Folderview is a widget that mounts any folder to the desktop in a clickable window. The folder becomes the clickable desktop, same as always, but now, you can put any folder in the window, so you can change the Desktop gui, according to different tasks and different situations. The adjustable desktop GUI is one of the reasons KDE4 is a lot more than eye candy. It's also brain food!

screenshot: Using Konqueror as Desktop menu for Fluxbox
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/h...shots/ks27.png

[Davno]

I have only seen pictures, and used KDE 4.x off a live CD for about 4 minutes, but does the new "Start" menu suck or is it just me?

I always used Mandrake and Mandriva with KDE, sometimes trying an other distro but when i bought my latest computer i had no choice but to get a distro with the latest kernel (hardware compatibility) but i could not stand KDE 4.xxx so i recently switch to Debian "Lenny" just to keep my KDE 3.5.
Guess i'm a bit old fashion.
Still have Mandriva on my older computers.

[agatonsax]

I must say I love the new menu. Clean and very easy to use. Haven't thought of all the clicking. If it's something I use often I just add it to favourites. Or I just type the name and it pops up, like terminal or konsole.

[blackbelt_jones]

I almost never use the menu. Ctrl + Alt + \ opens the run command dialogue. Ctrl + Alt + 0 opens konsole. One of those two will usually get me wherever I need to go faster than searching through a menu, or even clicking an icon on the panel.

My new OS is Slax. This could trun out to be the biggest shift in my OS profile since I gave up Windows. I installed a minimal slax live cd to the hard drive and added software, usually by compiling packages individually. Slax is probably a good candidate for most likely to be the last distro to switch to KDE4. Usually, when I hate something, it's a prelude to liking it. I was expecting to like KDE4 by now, but it's not happening. Every day now, someone tries to assure me that they are confident that someday soon, the present KDE which has taken over everywhere will work as well as the KDE of 3 or 4 years ago, which has been dumped everywhere and is getting difficult to find. How is this not insane?

When I say that I hate KDE4, I mean that i hate using it. Everyone else can use it with my consent and blessing.

[cybertron]

I was expecting to like KDE4 by now, but it's not happening. Every day now, someone tries to assure me that they are confident that someday soon, the present KDE which has taken over everywhere will work as well as the KDE of 3 or 4 years ago, which has been dumped everywhere and is getting difficult to find. How is this not insane?

I'd say that's because as of 4.2 KDE 4 still isn't ready for primetime. I'm now using it both at work and at home and both places Plasma crashes on a far too regular basis for something that is so critical to the functioning of the desktop, and I'm constantly running into missing options that maybe aren't dealbreakers, but are really annoying (for instance, the fact that the device notifier widget doesn't have an option to make it disappear automatically after a few seconds).

On that note, I know MEPIS and Gentoo are still using KDE 3 as their default KDE version too. My main PC at home is still not at KDE 4, and when I do move it to 4 that will be a good sign that it's finally, actually stable. Of course I'll probably continue to use Fluxbox so maybe it won't matter.

[blackbelt_jones]

When I say that I hate KDE4, I mean that i hate using it. Everyone else can use it with my consent and blessing.

With all due respect to my good friend, the blackbelt_jones of the recent past, I really love KDE4 now, especially KDE4.3. As Walt Whitman wrote : "Do I kontradict myself? Very well then I kontradict myself. 4.3 is a beta, and, yes, I've found a few bugs, but they're mostly in the plasmoids. The widgets are great but since they're mostly based on web information, when they don't work you can easily do what people used to before KDE4, use your browser.

If you don't like KDE4's start menu, and you don't like lancelot, I reccommend the utter simplicity of Konqueror's application menu. Most menus are designed with fast access to applications in mind, but if you know the app you're looking for there are already much faster ways of accessing them than any menu. Opening the runcommand dialogue from the keyboard will get you there fast, and you can always create a keyboard shortcut with the input actions dialogue.

I don't usually use a menu, and when I do I prefer EASY to fast, and the easiest applications menu is the one in Konqueror. It's just icons that you click on, and that's all, nothing that's going to collapse on you if you don't maneuver the mouse just right. Icons and that's all. Under applications in the GO menu (in file manager mode) or just type programs:/ into the browser window.

Because of KDE's inbred fleixibility with icons, Konqueror's applications menu can be used in all sorts of cool ways. For one thing, because it's Konqueror, you can open it was an html link, or even a forum link. Anyone viewing this page with Konqueror can click here to check out the applications menu instantly. (At least I think they can. I'm using Firefox so I'll have to test it later.) You can also open programs:/ in dolphin, add the menu to your KDE4 desktop with folderview, or add it to your panel, with the quick access widget in KDE4, or the quick browser widget in KDE3.

[happybunny]

blackbelt_jones: your contributions are getting more and more helpful over time and I do enjoy reading them...and using them as I"ve stolen most of your fluxbox config's....

BUT

please please re-size your pictures before posting them! I now have to scroll left and right and up and down to read this thread, useful as it is!

thanks

[blackbelt_jones]

blackbelt_jones: your contributions are getting more and more helpful over time and I do enjoy reading them...and using them as I"ve stolen most of your fluxbox config's....

BUT

please please re-size your pictures before posting them! I now have to scroll left and right and up and down to read this thread, useful as it is!

thanks

Sorry. As a matter of fact, I don't do that anymore. The picture you're referring to dates back a while, when I was using fluxbox all the time. (You know, I feel sort of guilty for the fact that I'm all about KDE 3 + 4 now.) I'll just turn it into a clickable text link right now. Maybe later I'll get around to turning it into a thumbnail, but probably not.

The thing about KDE4 is that it gives you endless options for launching applications. I'll agree with you if you told me that some of them suck, but we'd probably disagree about which ones.

In case I didn't say this before, for me the number one choice for launching apps fast is a keyboard shortcut that launches the run application dialogue. No menu will ever be created that gets you anywhere faster, provided that you know the command or name of the app. KDE4 has the most advanced run command dialogue I've ever seen, with superior command completion features to get you up and running even faster.

Here's some information worth remembering, I recently learned that all three popular desktop environments helpfuly use the same keybinding as the default to open the run application dialogue, Alt +F2 So no matter what you're using , if you using someone else's gnome, KDE, or XFCE box, or if you're using, or a new Desktop that you just booted onto the first time, and you haven't set your own shortcuts yet, you can probably get run command by typing Alt + F2.

When I set my own run command dialogue, I want it to be something comfortable and natural. I choose Ctrl + Alt + Backslash. Ctrl + Alt + 0 launches Konsole. Those two keybindings open nearly everything I need opened, they take me nearly everywhere I need to go, and faster than any menu ever could.

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